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WHO’S WHO: The Definitive Podcast of the DC Universe, Volume XIII

Who's Who: The Definitive Podcast of the DC UniverseThe Fire and Water Podcast Presents… WHO’S WHO: THE DEFINITIVE PODCAST OF THE DC UNIVERSE, Volume XIII!

The thirteenth episode of our WHO’S WHO podcast is now available — the show that dares to tackle one of DC Comics’ greatest publications! Each episode Rob and I cover a single issue of the legendary 1980s series, Who’s Who: The Definitive Directory of the DC Universe. This time around we chat about WHO’S WHO: Volume XIII, discussing characters such as Krypto, Lady Lunar, The Legion of Super-Heroes, Liberty Belle, Lois Lane, and many more! We wrap up the show with Who’s Who Listener Feedback! This episode sponsored in part by!

Be sure to check out our Tumblr site for several pages from this Who’s Who issue:!

Have a question or comment? Send us an e-mail at:

You can find the thirteenth episode of WHO’S WHO: THE DEFINITIVE PODCAST OF THE DC UNIVERSE on iTunes. Each episode is released as part of THE FIRE AND WATER PODCAST feed. While you’re on iTunes, please drop us a review. Alternatively, you may download the podcast by right-clicking here, choosing “Save Target/Link As”, and selecting a location on your computer to save the file (68 MB).

Thanks to my co-host Rob Kelly, Sea King of THE AQUAMAN SHRINE, for doing all the post-production on this episode! Special thanks to Daniel Adams and Ashton Burge with their band The Bad Mamma Jammas for our fantastic Who’s Who theme song!

One of the coolest aspects of each Who’s Who issue was the amazing wrap-around cover! Check out this impressive George Perez cover for Volume XIII! Click the image to enlarge.

Who’s Who: The Definitive Podcast of the DC Universe, Volume XIII cover by George Perez

Here is your Firestorm-related Who’s Who entry from this issue…

Liberty Belle of the All-Star Squadron drawn by Mitch Schauer and Dick Giordano! Firestorm met Liberty Belle in Justice League of America #207 (Oct. 1982) during the JLA/All-Star Squadron crossover “Crisis on Earth Prime!” Admittedly Firestorm and Liberty Belle don’t have a long history together, but I’ve always liked the character … and she’s reeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaallllllly cute.  :)  Click the image to enlarge.

Who's Who Liberty Belle by Mitch Schauer and Dick Giordano

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  1. (reposted at the Aquaman Shrine)

    Another… podcast, fellas!

    I have never been much of a Legion of Superheroes fan. I’ve tried to get into different eras of their stories but they’ve never been able to hook me. The best run I read was Mark Waid’s pre- and then post-Infinite Crisis series, which became Supergirl and the Legion of Superheroes. That was an enjoyable read. Of course, Mark Waid could get me to read a book starring Jericho.

    Okay, no he couldn’t. No one could.

    Looker? Whew… If I never heard of Looker before I could have guessed she was an Outsiders character. Sadly, I have heard of the character. So sadly…

    I’ve always loved Liberty Belle. In Ryan’s Fantasy World of Whiskey and Wish-Fulfillment, Libby would get a Bucky Barnes-style revitalization, making her a notorious, behind-enemy-lines combatant in World War II, rallying resistance fighters in Occupied Europe, maybe teaming up with Sgt. Rock. I’m not sure how that would work with the whole power from ringing the Liberty Bell in Philadelphia thing, but whatever.

  2. Siskoid says:

    Cover: Other nice connections include the Ladies Quark and Lunar fighting, the latter helped by Sun Emperor (so both Moon and Sun), and Super-Monkey inspecting Kung as he channels gorilla powers.

    Letters page: We also learn Who’s Who will now start giving cover credits on this page. Also, Len announces Lois will get an entry in volume 14, though she’s right here in volume 13. Oops!

    Krypto: I love the Silver Age-ness of the entry and of all these Superman Family entries. It’s ridiculous that Krypto’s forebears have names like Vypto, Nypto and Zypto, as if their owners were breeding the ultimate Kryptonian dog in Krypto. “Can’t use that name quite yet, hm, let’s call him Pypto.”

    Krypton: Who puts their map on their flag? (Sorry Cyprus.) And how bad should people living on the other side of the planet feel? Unless the flag’s reverse has a different map?

    Kryptonite: This page fascinated me as a kid, and still. Like Shag, I got my first class in the stuff from Super-Friends.

    Kulak and Kung: So are you telling me I should have Who’s Thised these guys?

    Lady Chian: Pronounced Lady CHEE-ann according to the pronunciation guide in volume XIV (it pays to look ahead for these, looks like Len’s waiting for them to build up before publishing them). Jan Duursema is a great fantasy artist, so no surprise this is a nice pic, even to non-Arion fans.

    Lady Lunar: Who’s This? I can’t think of an RPG module with her in it (West End maybe?), but she DID have 3 cameos in Justice League Unlimited. Maybe that’s it.

    Lady Quark: Maybe that’s why she gets 2 color holds. The pink-red is there because it was already needed for her costume, and the blue is the scheduled hold?

    League of Assassins: Shag knows what sensei means yet refuses to pronounce it Sen-Say. FIREANDWATER TRADEMARK MOVE!

    League of Super-Assassins: NOT a Legion, weirdly. Of course, I only knew these guys from their participation in other teams. Yes, disappointing. Unless you’re looking for a pic of Mist Master passing gas.

    Legion Academy: MAN! Why are Legion text entries on the whole so short?! More room for the art, sure, but geez. Anyway, the first Legion book I ever read focused on the Academy (same one, Rob?, it was where White Witch and Invisible Kid went for some extra training), so I’ll always love these kids. Even the ones that got turned into Manhunter robots. Comet Queen joined in the latest run. To answer your question Shag, for me, from the Great Darkness Saga on (ending the original run and then most of the Baxter series).

    Legion of Substitute-Heroes: They were featured in DC Comics Present #59, the first American comic I ever bought, as I testified to here:

    Legion of Super-Heroes: Sensor Girl is obviously creating an illusory Projectra to protect her secret identity. The thing about the powers is not “no one can have the same power, but rather, that each member must have a power unique to them. Superboy and Supergirl don’t count so you can have Mon-El, and Ultra Boy’s Penetra-vision can see through lead unlike X-Ray Vision so he’s fine. Let’s just say they fudged their constitutional rules so they could get powerful members in, but didn’t make the same concessions for everyone. Rob (ROB!!!) was advocating for three pages for the Legion (THREE PAGES!) (FOR THE LEGION!!), Shag. Don’t discourage him from showing Legion love! One place they could have saved room for more historical text is cutting Powers & Weapons. Teams don’t need them, especially when everyone has their own entry.

    Legion of Super-Heroes HQ: The map had appeared previously in the main Legion book, but why redraw what was already a perfectly good HQ cutaway? The other thing that was in that original drawing, I seem to remember, is the Legionnaires’ symbols in each of those empty squares to show where they had their room. A missing surprint?


  3. Martin Gray says:

    That’s easy, Count Drunkula – we give Libby Lawrence super-tinnitus, so the power never leaves her.

    Anyway, top podcast, chums. What IS that blotch on Lois’s face on the cover, a purple patch? Anyway, I loved Mindy Newell and Gray Morrow’s ‘micro series’ for its realistic-feeling take on Lois, it was like a Lou Grant Daily Planet. But poor, poor Lana …

    Oh, and what the heck is wrong with Klurkor? Of course Lo would learn it, in Kandor, perhaps when visiting her lookalike Sylvia (who was, of course, married to Superman lookalike Van-Zee). In return, she could teach her volunteer nurse skills. Or journalism. Or stalking.

    I agree that you should get co-hosts for the Legion Who’s Who episode, otherwise we’re ruddy doomed.

    That poster who said he could do a better picture than Bob Smith, let’s see it then!

    There’s really nothing wrong with Looker, apart from her origin, pesonality and costume. The powers were OK, I liked that she didn’t fly in the traditional manner, but walked. Or more likely, strutted. The only time I took to her was in the Mudpack stories.

    I always had a fondness for Lilith, especially in her Teen Titans back-ups, in which she was searching for her true family; she’d ride across America, a psychic redhead in green plaid, and constantly run into psychic redheads in green plaid who WEREN’T her relatives, but were, rather, crooks. Poor lass.

    Oh, and nice one Rob in recommending as a great Krypto story the one in which he gets fried …

    (I shall also repost at the Aquaman Shrine!)

  4. Siskoid says:

    Legion of Super-Pets: What is the worst Pet-related crime in the DCU? How about Proty, a sentient being considered as a PET?! That would be my vote. May I just say, not only am I happy this got an entry, but it also makes me sad Krypto’s Dog Star Patrol didn’t get an entry, and indeed, got snubbed under his Group Affiliation in his own entry. That’s just the kind of DC Comics fan I am.

    Liberty Belle: Love her thanks to her central role in All-Star Squadron. Roy Thomas really did a lot for the non-JSA Golden Age heroes.

    Lightning Lass: As I’ve said before, she’s MY pick for hottest Legionnaire, and I owe it to the early Baxter issues when she regained her lightning powers, but was doing quite well as a martial artist with gravity-lowering powers. June Brigman makes her look like what Julie Power (Lightspeed) would have grown up to be, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. Weird trivia: Both Julie and Ayla have an “older version” of their characters that are gay. By the way, NO WAY is she 6 feet tall. I bet that’s in there just so she could take her brother’s place in that ridonculous Legion history, but she’s drawn way more petite in the stories after that.

    Lightning Lord: Nice coordination of the artwork so that we don’t get three renditions of this same electric baby elephant origin.

    Lightray: Feat. special guest star the Human Torch! I would totally read a Tiny New Gods strip. Franco, Baltazar, get on it!

    Little Boy Blue: Who’s This?
    (Wonder Woman’s first appearance by a matter of MONTHS is All-Star Comics #8. It doesn’t make sense, but that’s what happened. Sensation #1 was on the stands in July 1941, and ASC8 in October 1940!)

    Lois Lane: LOVE this pic, great kiss, great Kryptonian martial arts hit, love it, love it, love it.

    Looker: Everything that’s wrong about the Outsiders, in a single character. And then some.

    Lord of Time: Morrison brought him into the modern age in the JLA/WILDCats special (better than it sounds).

    Lord Satanis: Wasn’t Gil Kane the artist on that classic Bronze Age storyline? Kane over Swan, man.

    Lord Shilling: Tapped for my next Who’s This? later this week! (By popular demand.) I do like that Who’s Who gave some space to villains from its longer-lasting historical heroes. Lord Shilling is like Iron Major in that sense.

    Losers: I wish this was a Kirby image (sorry M.!), because that’s my favorite iteration of the Losers (sorry Andy Diggle!).

  5. Siskoid says:

    After the entries…

    The Lois Lane 2-issue series, though double-sized, each featured 2 chapters, so it was definitely designed as a 4-issue series.

    There ARE Direct Sales books advertised in Who’s Who, but I can’t be sure from work if there hadn’t been YET at this point. I do remember Baxter series Legion covers in the back there. Could be in the Updates though. Have to check

    The mystery of Diabolu Frank: That his blog entries are much much much shorter than his response to these podcasts.

    Mxyzptlk: Shag, will you say gahS so we can check if you’re really from the 5th dimension?

    JLA 217-218: Sooooooo agree these were great JLA one-shots. Also my first two, as recently chronicles in my video series copied right off Frank’s test sheet. And the Paragon story was, like, my third. Loved it. We’re on the same page here, Rob.

    Girlfriends in Canada: ALL my girlfriends were in and from Canada. I only WISH they’d been imaginary (if you know what I mean, and I mean those relationships ended badly).

    Fans of the Tomorrow People? That’s as maybe. Was that supposed to be the FOREVER People? Nothing against the Brit show soon to be remade for American screens, of course, though I expect 100% less Peter Davison in a white afro wig.

  6. Kyle Benning says:

    I finally got through this episode, after starting it at 8 am CST, it wasn’t until 4:30 pm before I was finally able to finish. How dare work interrupt my Who’s Who listening time?!?! Great episode guys, another winner!
    Sorry Shag, Rob’s right, Lois shouldn’t have to share the main character spotlight on the cover, regardless of Superman sales at the time, Lois had been around for almost 50 years at this point, and probably one of the 10 oldest characters in the DCU featured in Who’s Who, and not to mention, the 2nd biggest movie star. She starred in 2 huge blockbuster films (as well as a smaller role in the less popular yet still successful Superman III), something that can’t even be said about Batman at this point. Lois Lane is probably the 2nd most notorious female character in the DCU at this point, especially in the eyes of non-regular readers. She has to be right up there with Linda Carter’s Wonder Woman as a female icon at the point this was published.
    Of course Shag would have to go there with Supergirl and Brainiac 5…I thought Brainiac 5 was supposed to be smart, if I were him I’d be worried about losing a very critical piece of anatomy. Ouch!
    Shag, as far as great Legion runs, I really recommend you start with issue #284 up through issue #300 and Annual #3. Issue #284 marks the return of Paul Levitz to the title, with Pat Broderick handling art duties for a short period before Keith Giffen takes over art duties. This run includes the Great Darkness Saga story, which is a must read. This run is still the classic looking art by Keith Giffen, before he adopted his scratchy style later in the run. I’ll be covering this era in one of my upcoming Retro Review articles for the, probably around the end of November.
    Shag’s pronunciation may have hit an all-time low. Metron pronounced as Meetron? I always assumed it Metron, pronounced as in Met-tron. Metro with an “n” after it. Maybe I’m mistaken here. I think we need a standby official judge on character pronunciation here, any way we can get to weigh in on this and settle it? We may have to default to Frank to settle this. Frank, please make room in your 12 page comment to address the pronunciation of 4th World Characters. Thank you.
    The hype did not disappoint haha! Rob’s simplier time Holocaust comment made me laugh so loud at work, Mike Bailey was right, it is terrible and hilarious!
    I have to disagree with you about Satanus not being relevant or worthy of an entry, he appeared in Action Comics #527 in 1982, and he would soon play a very significant role in the DCU and the Superman books in the Post Crisis era, with his alter ego being Colin Thornton as well as being used again during Jerry Ordway’s Power of Shazam ongoing series, since Satanus and Blaze were the demon half children of the Wizard Shazam.
    Comments regarding the feedback:
    -Yes Roy Thomas’s list of JSAers leaving and joining the team may be tedious, but you have to love Roy Thomas’ dedication and absolute passion about these characters. The TwoMorrows All Star Companions are so packed with information, all gathered by Thomas. I recommend all JSA fans to track down those volumes, a lot of great information and a ton of great non published art as well!
    When you guys finish up Who’s Who Podcast in 2030, do you guys have any plans to cover the 1992 DC Cosmic Cards? That’d make a fun episode, especially since characters like Superman, got a Golden, Silver, and Modern Age card, giving it a leg up on Who’s Who which screwed Earth 2 Superman out of an entry! Each little card has some great info, art by a number of long time DC artists, and a nice little trivia question. I could see that making a fun episode. If you need a fill-in guest host for that episode when you finally get to it 17 years from now, let me know!
    Regarding Mark Waid, he was a long time editor before he started writing, his sheninangans editing Legion and constantly including the no longer usable Supergirl is one of the things that absolutely drove John Byrne crazy when he was doing Superman for DC. But enough about that, Waid’s current Daredevil and Hulk runs are awesome, looking forward to meeting him at FallCon this weekend in St. Paul, MN.
    To end this Earth 2 Aquaman debate, I want to point everyone to the Justice Society TPB Volume 1, which collects All-Star Comics #58-67, and DC Special #29. In the prologue, page 6 of the book states “Some of the heroes were similar—a Superman came to Earth-One as well as Earth-Two…others were subtly different—both worlds have Green Lanterns, yet one uses a mystic ring and the other a scientific emerald gem…and still others were unique—men like Doctor Fate, or Aquaman…but all heroes nonetheless.” There you have it, Aquaman was unique to Earth One, just as Doctor Fate was unique to Earth Two.

    Another great episode guys! Can’t wait for the next episode!

  7. Siskoid says:


    Lois Lane: I disagree that she’s badly used on the cover. Having her interview another hero seems perfect to me. She could do with being a little less in profile, but still, cleverly done.

    Is Brainiac 5 the Man of Kleenex now?

    Metron:I propose we use official media with audio as the ultimate guide when Who’s Who doesn’t provide one. In the case of Metron, I checked, they don’t, so somebody needs to watch his Superman or JLU animated episodes to check.

    Satanus: Don’t think you can use his post-Crisis appearances as evidence that he deserved an entry in the ’85. His post-Crisis stories were much later, and at this point, it doesn’t look like DC even knows WHAT Byrne will do to the character judging from the entries in this very series. I personally don’t mind that he’s there, but since Syrene is too, that’s two entries that tell the same story.

    Aquaman-2: I’m afraid on-panel evidence (as per ASS and the tumblr) is more convincing than text pieces that might as well be anti-Aquaman-of-Earth-2 propaganda.

  8. rob! says:

    There IS/WAS an Aquaman of Earth-2. End of discussion.

  9. Frank says:

    1. So glad Perez is back. It’s not even particularly good Perez, but it’s inoffensive where Cullins too often aggravated. For some reason (hideous costume?) I always focus past Lightning Lad and Lois Lane to Looker. The way Chameleon Chief interacted with Liberty Belle was a mess, though.

    2. I had a Twitter spat over my firm belief that OHOTMU was better at what it is than Who’s Who. However, DC proved superior in the art department thanks to its nonconformity, with the surprints offering a better sense of the characters than clip art. Also, I love the variety of logos, which have often come in handy when repurposed for my own projects. Type might have been neater, but it wouldn’t have been nearly as neat-o.

    3. I get where M. is coming from on the Jack Kirby art. I think there was a lot of resentment over the “Marvelization” of DC seen to have begun as early as the late ’60s with the arrivals of Marvel icons like Kirby and Ditko. In a project meant to celebrate DC’s half-century, all that New Gods stuff was probably salt in the gaping wound that was Crisis on Infinite Earths. That said, segregationist philosophy has not fared well in progressive society. There’s also the karmic imbalance of Kirby’s absence from OHOTMU to consider.

    4. It was wise of DC to never give in on a “Handbook of the Dead,” since Marvel was later pilloried for their impermanence. Come to think of it, I take back my endorsement, since DC’s morgue has proven far more robust and reliable.

    5. Dig how M. dismisses Glorious Godfrey among the dead/inactive/”will probably never be seen again” less than a year before Legends. Brother Power’s infamy can largely be traced back to his inclusion in Who’s Who. Anyway, M. clearly wants Who’s Who to be exactly like OHOTMU, and I assume he’s a pseudonym for Sidney Mellon.

    6. The Krona illustration is solid overall, but marred by his search for the forbidden answers to all of the universe’s mysteries located at the bridge of his nose. He probably shouldn’t shave while seeking, either.

    7. Colleen Doran’s done a fair amount of DC work, including bits & pieces for Vertigo, most of the Valor series, and Reign of the Zodiac.

    8. Superman was a creepy weird-o, not the least for the dick move of exiling his dog into outer space.

    9. I wish Krypton had gotten a more elaborate two page spread.

    10. Red Kryptonite is my favorite, for its unpredictability.

    11. I hate the Silver Age above all other comic book eras. The Golden Age was wonderfully primal & diverse, while the Bronze Age birthed full characterization and expanded storylines. Most of the modern classics came at the dawn of the Iron/Chromium Age, which was a gas by virtue of sheer chaos. The Silver Age was a bloodless, juvenile hash of two-dimensional characters with one dimensional morality in predictable, formulaic, gimmick plots. The super-hero universe and its dominance over all comics began here. Blech.

    12. Kulak has appeared in six individual comic book stories, half of which were issues from the 1993 Strazewski/Parobeck Justice Society of America series.

    13. Wonder Woman sales had dropped to around 175K after the Batmania bust took the late ’60s comic industry with it. The downward trend continued through the white jumpsuit years. Bob Kanigher brought back the costume, & Julie Schwartz trotted out guest stars, but neither did much good. The book tried to catch some heat off the TV series in 1977 by going back to the World War II era, but the show had modernized with the move to CBS. The book reverted back to the present after a year or two, by which point the TV show was canceled, and sales began an irreversible slide below 100K.

    All that having been said, it’s ironic that Shag slags on Bronze Age Wonder Woman, especially since Gerry Conway wrote runs on both her eponymous title and her World’s Finest Comics feature, which included the first Amazing Amazon issue I ever read. Conway co-created Kung, by the way. I’m not as well versed on the period as I would like, but what I’ve read has been pretty darned good.

    12. I dislike Arion, but I always wanted its concepts to be annexed by Aquaman. Their character designs were swell, and they were ethnocentric in a way DC desperately needed. Lovely art by Jan Duursema on Lady Chian, whose name I always assumed was read with a silent “i.”

    13. Never read a single one of Lady Lunar’s few appearances. Another contemporaneous character long since forgotten given undue attention. Will Meugniot is also a pin-up artist with a few cheesecake books under his belt. Anyone remember when the DNAgents had a quasi-crossover with the Teen Titans as the “RECOMBatants” vs. “Project Youngblood.”

    “WILL MEUGNIOT: It’s pronounced Min-Ee-Oh. I think many people have [butchered my name] in the past. Mark Evanier and I used to dub ourselves “The most unpronounceable team in comics!”

    I would have thought otherwise. Now I’ll forever associate him with Sal Mineo.

    14. The media gave me a narrow definition of beauty as a child, so the age and severe androgynous buzz cut on Lady Quark made me uncomfortable. As I matured, I came to better appreciate Quark and expand my mind in general. She was one of the few L.E.G.I.O.N. members that mattered to me, and I still want to read about her today. Really powerful anti-heroine.

    15. Hate to be nonconstructive in my criticism, but you guys are dumb asses if you don’t appreciate Kyle Baker’s Sienkiewicz riff on the League of Assassins. He was part of the Avant Garde at Marvel in the mid ’80s, making boilerplate material like Web of Spider-Man and Wolfpack look cutting edge. Baker used to be the choice inker to jazz up staid mainstays like Ron Wilson and Mike Harris. I love all that stuff, and in truth preferred when Baker still tried to do “serious” art, instead of the caricature he increasingly embraced going into the ’90s.

    Also, Shag? “Sin-say.” Not much for anime, huh?

    16. Now I want to read Mark Waid’s “A Man Called Jericho.”

  10. Anj says:

    Thanks for another great show.

    As a Legion guy and with all the Superman stuff, this is my second favorite Who’s Who issue. (right after the S issue which has Supergirl, Superman, and Swamp Thing behind a snazzy John Byrne cover.) I consider the Legion my first comic love and part of the first comics I ever collected, so I am immersed in its mythology. So I have lots of comments on this issue.

    1) Krypton – I think Kandor isn’t mentioned much in this entry because it had its own page in the K issue. As a kid I always thought Krypton was some paradise. Then you read this entry. The first ‘El’ stopped the planet’s “practices of human sacrifice and ritualistic cannibilism.” What ??

    I will also wave my geek flag and say I was surprised that the Vrangs weren’t mentioned in this entry. The Vrangs were an alien race which invaded Krypton and enslaved the populace until another El led a revolt.

    2) Kryptonite – It was explained (somewhere) that Kal’s rocket created a wormhole to Earth resulting in so much Kryptonite landing on Earth.

    I always found it strange that ‘normal’ Green K can only harm super-powered Kryptonians. As a result, to explain the death of everyone on Argo City they had to make Anti-Kryptonite which only harms non-powered Kryptonians. My head hurts!

    The Red Kryptonite “different unpredictable effect on Kryptonians – always the same effect on all Kryptonians” line is confusing. What they are trying to say is that one chunk of Red K would have the same effect on all Kryptonians (if a chunk turned Superman into an ant, the same chunk would turn Supergirl into an ant – not have a different effect) while another chunk would have a completely different mutation.

    Realizing it was a crutch, Denny O’Neill destroyed all Kryptonite on Earth in the famous ‘Sand Superman’ storyline.

    3) League of Super-Assassins – Staton drew their first appearance in SBLSH #253-4. In that story, the League takes out a bunch of powerful Legionnaires only to be ultimately defeated by an insane Brainiac 5 teaming up with the … Legion of Substitute Heroes! I always liked the redemption of Blok.

    4) Legion of Super-Heroes – What a great picture by Greg LaRocque who really had a nice run on the title despite following Giffen and Lightle! I really like the comprehensive nature of the page including the honored dead. Yes, the smiles seem wooden but I imagine this like an elementary school class photo – everyone’s smile looks weird there. While I love the picture, the history is so woefully short. For a team whose fandom prides itself on knowing the history down to the most minute detail, I felt a bit cheated.

    Shag – for Legions stuff pre 5YL, I would give you two time periods.
    First off, the early 70s stuff where Cockrum drew the book and then Mike Grell came on board are beautiful to look at with decent stories. Definitely a lot of the events of the 80s/90s stuff were seeded there. So Superboy and the Legion low 200s.

    Second, starting with the Great Darkness Saga into the early 300s where Giffen still had his more organic look and Levitz was weaving multiple plots throughout the book is just solid stuff.

    I could suggest more!

    5) Legion of Super Pets – Streaky! And Comet! Okay, this is insane. But still more worthy than J. Wilbur Wolfingham.

    6) Legion of Super-Villains – just a beautiful page by Steve Lightle. It is sad that Lightle couldn’t keep deadlines because the LSV issues in the early baxter series are soooo beautiful. It is clear that Lightle must love the look of the Sun Emperor because he was a minor villain before that story when he became a big name. And here he dominates the spread. Xymyr is one of the Gil Dish’pan – a race which can teleport.

    7) Lightning Lad – like Shag I never really took to the character who always seemed just about to have a nervous breakdown. As noted, he has had a rough life – lost his arm, dead, brought back to life, elected leader and struggling with the demands. But he never seemed eager to grab onto the hero thing. I mean one of the Legionnaires Three covers has him sobbing saying ‘You win Time Trapper’. Lame.

    Later, in the 5YL, it was revealed that the mind of Proty 1 (who ‘sacrificed’ himself to resurrect Garth) had taken over his body. Luckily that was retconned away.

    8) Lightning Lass – As Shag knows, Lightning Lass is my vote for hottest Legionnaire and this page helps my cause. No mention of how hot she is?

    I like the surprint on this page a lot. The far left shows the old school Legion when the lightning characters need to strike their hands together to fire bolts. The far left shows her in the Light Lass mode. As for the middle ‘explosion’ section of the surprint, that recreated the moment when she regained her lightning powers in the above mentioned LSV story arc in the baxter book. In that story, Lightning Lord tries to convince Ayla to join his cause (she had left the Legion at that point, being upset at Timber Wolf). He tortures her with his lightning. At one point she breaks the electronic shackles she is in which explode. After that, her lightning powers returned.

    Anyways, I hope that Shag will recall this page when he reviews Phantom Girl’s Who’s Who page.

    9) Lois Lane- I was thrilled when she got her own page and Oksner was a perfect choice. And the art does her justice. It is her page. Yes, one part of the surprint is her kissing Superman, but you don’t see the S-shield or anything else that defines him as being him. We also get her clocking a bad guy, typing, and that wonderful close up.

    I also was a bit upset that there was very little about her life with Sam and Lucy.

    Anyways, I could talk about many more entries but tried to distill things down.

    I chuckled at your comment about my procreating Shag. I have three kids … all daughters, all of whom love comics. Hopefully there will be a next generation of Supergirl fans out there!

    Thanks again for the great show. Long Live the Legion!

  11. Anthony Durso/The Toyroom says:

    Ahhh yes…..The long-awaited “Legion” issue of “Who’s Who”!

    Starting with the cover, so glad to finally see George Perez return to the art. Unfortunately,
    he won’t be around ’til the end of the run…

    I have to disagree with Rob regarding Lightning Lad’s stature on the cover. As Shag has pointed out, the Legion was one of DC’s best selling books at the time. It’s only fitting that one of the founding members who also has his own entry in this issue represents The Legion big-time on the cover.

    (Hey, I know he’s a “funny animal” but isn’t Little Cheese a little too large on L.L.’s shoulder?)

    Now on to the issue at hand….

    Krona: Gil Kane seems to be the logical choice to draw this character, besides maybe Joe Staton. It was Staton who handled the art on the “Tales of the Green Lantern Corps” mini-series that linked Krona with Nekron back in ’81.

    Krypto: Although I’m a fan of all things Silver Age Superman, I find myself questioning whether Krypto really needed a full page. (Considering Jimmy Olsen proper didn’t make the cut)

    Krypton: Since places like Atlantis got a 2-page spread, I think it would have made more sense to reprint the Neal Adams’ Krypton artwork from the “Amazing World of Superman” tabloid instead of cramming it into 1 page.

    Kryptonite: Big fan of old-school rainbow Kryptonite. Being able to readily recite all of the various forms of Kryptonite and its effects on the Man of Steel is a part of my geek-cred that I wear proudly.

    Kulak: Didn’t he return in some later “All-Star Squadron” issues?

    Kung: As far as the Golden Age Wonder Woman in 70s issue…She appeared starting in #228 until
    somewhere around #248 I think. It was an attempt by DC to tie the comic into the 1st season (ABC) of the TV series. When the show jumped networks (to CBS) and thru time (to the 70s) the Earth-1 WW
    returned with #249.

    Lady Chian: Maybe all of these “Arion” and “Warlord” characters could join the Omega Men since they’re just as relevant in my book…

    Lady Lunar: She was based off a one-time foe (Moon Man) who fought Superman, Batman and Robin in an issue of “World’s Finest” (#98) in 1958. Moon Man was a typical “gimmick-villain” of a time period that also included such foes as Zodiac Master, Killer Moth and Calendar Man. (Which has me wondering…in an alternate universe, what if there was a female counterpart to Calendar Man? Say a Calendar Queen? Just imagine the Simonson-designed outfit, flowing calendar page cape, flouncy pirate boots, low cut top, and a mane of red-hair cascading from underneath her cowl. I can already hear Alternate-Shag declaring her as “Hot!”)

    Lady Quark: Originally there were plans for Lady Quark, Harbinger and Pariah to explore the post-Crisis DC Universe but that never materialized, with the exception of their collective appearance in “DC Comics Presents” #94.

    League of Assassins: Is there any reason that you’re aware of as to why there isn’t any Neal Adams artwork in Who’s Who? He would have been a natural for this page.

    League of Super Assassins/Legion of Super-Villains: It seems sort of redundant to include the LoSA when they were eventually absorbed by the LoSV. For great LoSV stories, see #1-5 of the Baxter series as well as “Legion of Three Worlds”.

    Legion Academy: How is it that Bouncing Boy is qualified to be an instructor at the Academy? Really? Is it because he has TWO hot wives?

    Legion of Subs: Are the Subs the 30th Century equivalent of “The Big Bang Theory”? (Geeky guys and hot chick). Oh, Polar Boy not only became a Legion member but served as leader as well.

    Legion of Super-Heroes: Big fan of the Legion. One of my favorite DC franchises. Perhaps an origin story is in order…

    I first discovered The Legion of Super-Heroes in a black and white reprint paperback issued by Tempo Books in 1977 (others in the series that were sold at a book fair at school were Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Justice League of America and World’s Finest…I went home with the LSH and the JLA)

    I was instantly intrigued, as the cover (which reprinted the Neal Adams/Dick Giordano art from the 1976 DC Calendar). Who were all of these other characters that weren’t featured in the book? Where could I read more about them?

    Eventually this lead me to the “Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes” ongoing starting with #244 (1978), smack dab in the middle of their war with the Dark Circle and Mordru. Lightning Lad, Timber Wolf, Karate Kid, Wildfire and Saturn Girl instantly became my favorites (and remain so to this day).

    Ah yes, Saturn Girl…a pre-adolescent, 5th grade boy’s dream girl (no not Nura Nal) from the 30th Century. I think it was the pink bikini and the Farrah Fawcett hairdo that made me instantly proclaim her the “Hottest Legionnaire” (a title she still holds to this day).

    But I digress…Like Shag would do later on, I sought out as much as I could back in those pre-comic shop days…memorizing real names, powers and planets of origin. And although I found the Silver Age tales intriguing, it was the Cockrum and Grell era that really spoke to me and became “MY” Legion.

    Eventually the Legion fell by the wasteside for awhile as it was much cooler to be seen reading Marvel Comics than it was DC (although reading comics in general was still seen as “queer”)

    I was reunited with the Legion on a full-time basis just as Pat Broderick was passing the torch to Keith Giffen. I stayed all the way thru until Zero Hour rebooted everything. I would bounce in here and there and check out the various restarts and reboots from time to time but with each creative change I felt like I was getting further and further away from my childhood friends.

    For a short time it seemed as though Geoff Johns was going to bring back the one true Legion (“MY” Legion) through works like “The Lightning Saga”, “Superman-Secret Origin” and “Legion of Three Worlds” but alas the New 52 shattered those dreams.

    But even though that Legion is apparently dead now, I still have a multitude of back issues to enjoy. Long Live the Legion!

    Legion HQ: Yes that is indeed the logo from the 70s reprint series. I think Rob is a bigger fan of the Legion than he lets on…

    Legion of Super-Pets: Silver Age silliness at its worst…And yet Composite Superman takes all the heat.

    Liberty Belle: I remember liking her in “All-Star Squadron” but didn’t understand how she put up with
    Johnny Quick….

    Lightning Lad: One of my favorite Legionnaires. Shag, when you were running down the trials and tribulations of Garth Ranzz you forgot his greatest sham(e). It was revealed that when Garth died and was subsequently “revived”, it was in fact Proty that took over the Lightning Lad identity and was getting it on with Saturn Girl. Yeesh….creepy!

    As to the entry, yes Dave Cockrum designed the costume but the artwork on this page really seems phoned in (or whatever the 30th Century equivalent of a phone would be)

    Lightning Lass: Ayla Ranzz had recently received her original powers back during the initial issues of the Baxter series.

    Lightning Lord: I think it’s been mentioned that Mekt Ranzz is the ONLY person from Winath that DOESN’T have a twin. Ouch!

    Lightray: Favorite Kirby New Gods piece in “Who’s Who”. It’s flawless. (Unlike some others). Oh, and I believe it’s pronounced “Met-tron” as in “metronome”.

    Lilith: To me she became irrelevant when Raven was introduced. (Oh, and how come her buddy Gnarkk didn’t score a “Who’s Who” entry?)

    Little Boy Blue: He needed the money! (Sorry, ’80s flashback)

    Little Cheese: Didn’t Geoff Johns bump him off?

    Lois Lane: I would have liked a Silver Age Lois page by Kurt Schaffenberger featuring her trying
    to cut Clark’s hair with scissors.

    Looker: Even JLGL couldn’t make this costume look good…Bleech!

    Lord of Time: Still wish we had got to see the face-off with him and Kang in the unpublished “JLA/Avengers”….

    Lord Satanis: With characters like this I can see why DC hired John Byrne to reboot the Superman mythos. Ugh!

    Lord Shilling: Really? The arch-foe of Tomahawk (Tomahawk?!) deserves a full-page?

    The Losers: Speaking of Losers…I was recently re-reading some “Flash” issues from the late 70s/early 80s and was astonished that some important (albeit lesser foes) of the famed Rogues Gallery did not get “Who’s Who” listings.

    1) Mazdan- One of the Scarlet Speedster’s earliest foes (it doesn’t get any earlier than “Showcase” #4). A criminal from the 38th Century who is exiled to the 50th Century (way to shirk your responsibilities 38th Century!) and escapes to the 20th Century.

    2) The Ringmaster- The Golden Glider’s boy-toy (a precursor to Chillblaine) who was in a (then unheard of) FOUR-issue arc.

    3) Clive Yorkin- At one point he was the prime suspect in the death of Iris Allen

    Just three examples but I’m sure there are others. Was there some sort of underlying animosity toward the Flash on the part of the editors of “Who’s Who”? I mean, c’mon, one-time GL foe The Invisible Destroyer even got a full-page! WTFlash?

  12. Jeff R. says:

    They left out the Kryptonite Man? Outrage. (And doing that Kryptonite entry pretty much killed the ‘this may not exist after the Byrne reboot’ argument against Bronze-Age Superman family characters.)

    Speaking of, Kryptonite should have been the Firestorm-related entry, since he can make it.

  13. Martin Gray says:

    Forgot to say, there’d have been nothing much about Lois’s military past is that it didn’t exist at that point, it was a post-Crisis thing. See that stuff about Pittsdale and the farm. That was her family background.

    It always made me laugh that her parents were called Sam’n’Ella, no wonder Silver Age lo could be so poisonous.

    I’m very much against using DC animation as a pronunciation guide. I mean, they think J’onn J’onzz is a French name,

  14. Siskoid says:

    Martin: And of course, there’s Mixelplick. #SuperFriendsFTW

  15. Martin Gray says:

    You know what, I’ve never seen an episode of Super Friends, I don’t think it made it to the UK!

  16. Luke says:

    I do have to laugh that the jerky letter writer “M” is from Spartanburg, right up the road from me here in SC.

    Regarding the Legion, all I can say is a quote from Geo-Force back during The Lightning Saga: “Superman, that’s not only ridiculous, it’s also insane.” Or, if you prefer, I’ll mention the Legion of Superfluous Heroes from Jim Valentino’s normalman, who began doing their role-call in the first issue and never actually finished!

    Shag says “I love those 1980s intentionally diverse groups.” This makes me think of the Outsiders’ perfectly matched 5-member villain teams, such as the Force of July, the Nuclear Family, and Maxie Zeus’ Olympians.

    Glad to see The Losers get some love as a team, considering that a lot more people know them as the group and not from their then-cancelled solo strips.

    Back in 2003, when my wife and I got our first kitten together (who, sadly, passed away about a month ago), I wanted to name her Streaky, since she was very prone to sprinting from one end of the house of the other, as she was a huge ‘fraidy cat. My wife hit me with the shut down corner on this, and she was named Callie (being a calico). But in my mind I always thought of her as Streaky The Super-Cat!

  17. Yellow Dot Award Winning Diabolu Frank says:

    B1. How else to improve on a League of Assassins than adding the prefix “Super-?” Shag unintentionally made a negative point though, in that starting in the Bronze Age, so many super-teams seemed prefabricated. The Fatal Five is a memorable team because each member was so distinctive that they seemed like preexisting villains banded together (which was how they were handled Post-Zero Hour.) Conversely, the Super-Assassins are straight out of a Champions ready made start-up campaign, each member in a simple costume made up of one or two non-primary colors (to set them apart visually from similarly generic heroes,) each member possessing a basic power from off a checklist. I have limited tolerance for Joe Staton’s art, but even when the team gets annexed a few pages later by a much better artist, these losers are pushed into the background. They clearly exist for the sole purpose of hashing out a few months worth of books and giving not-Thing bragging rights as a reformed super-assassin.

    B2. I think a training team is a good idea, especially for franchises, but the execution always ends up like this. It’s the League of Super-Assassins without even needing the pretense of being a credible threat for one story. “Shadow Lass with a penis! Boom! One down, five to go. Lois Lane wearing Superman’s cape as a poncho! Frig no, she don’t need shoes. Purity of concept, bro. No way this slice of brilliance gets wasted on a nonsensical tie-in to a much maligned crossover in a few years. Unpossible!” We need “Legion Arena.” Oh wait, Giffen ground this meat off-panel in the 5YL timeline.

    B3. Seriously, the Substitute Heroes look feasible when compared to Legion Academy. Cute gags. Didn’t Rokk date Night Girl, or am I thinking of Umbra?

    B4. I always wanted to read Legion as a kid, but didn’t have a good jumping on point until Zero Hour. That inspired me to work backwards to the ’70s, but I didn’t embrace the Bronze Age stuff. I was perfectly happy with the Baxter series. By extension, I very much enjoyed the underrated work of Greg Larocque, who offered a shiny happy future of beautiful people. Shag’s right about the Legion versus the JSA, as Dr. Fate and the Spectre were so often absent and of inconsistent abilities. The Legion consistently featured multiple Superman-class heroes in monthly adventures, plus DC’s most powerful telepath, most intelligent hero, most accomplished martial artist, and Element Lad. They had two of whatever any other team had, and one of those two was probably comics’ avatar of their power set.

    B5. I like the Super-Pets. They should have pulled a heel turn and subjugated humanity. I want to see Superman punch a super-horse.

    B6. One of the reasons I adore Steve Lightle is that he can draw in a classic clean Silver Age retro style clearly outdated characters and still come off fresh and fantastic. I’m much less enamored of the proliferation of one note evil versions of Legionnaires than Shag. I was so fixated on this one image of Sun Emperor that I came up with a whole Dark Phoenix Saga for Superman that ripped him of in the mid-90s. I’m over that now, but wooo Sun Emperor. Can’t wait for the Legion Who’s Who with early idiosyncratic art by Kyle Baker and Rob Liefeld (who I think I remember doing the Hunter entry.) I feel like I should explain Siskoid’s Brainiac 5 joke, but it’s probably not my place. I just don’t want to hear a quizzical listener feedback notation next month.

    B7. I like Liberty Belle, and self-love to light colored tight fitting riding pants.

    B8. I feel like Lightning Lad was supposed to be the Luke Skywalker of the Legion, without the transformative journey into becoming a Jedi knight. I also felt like his and Saturn Girl’s story was told by the early ’80s, as Levitz let them go off into domesticity while focusing on other members. Post-Zero Hour, the writers rushed through all of Lightning Lad’s traumas, which made him a hot mess. I’m on #TeamCos.

    B9. Never liked Light/ning Lass. Her costume sucks and her powers/personality are a snooze. I like June Brigman’s art, though.

    B10. Fun seeing Jim Starlin on Lightning Lord, but he’s an evil variation on characters I don’t like in a hideous costume.

    B11. Lightray is fine as a foil for the ever dour Orion. Otherwise, worthless. “Metron” should be pronounced like his namesake “Metatron,” an archangel referenced in the Talmud. That would be “Met-Tron.”

    B12. Lilith is a character type that I like, and I wish I liked Lilith as a character better, but her stories in the Wolfman era were a drag.

    B13. Little Boy Blue and the Blue Boys are a nice bit of nostalgia. All-Star Comics #8 was released on October 25, 1941 and was intended as a showcase to launch Wonder Woman (and Sensation Comics) in a big way with her origin story. Sensation Comics #1 came out on November 7, 1941 with a recap and Diana’s arrival in Man’s World.

    B14. Little Cheese was a late arrival to the Zoo Crew, and nostalgia for an earlier model is all I have to hold onto with the Zoo Crew. “Edam is a semi-hard cheese that originated in the Netherlands, and is named after the town of Edam in the province of North Holland.” It’s the one with the red-orange skin.

    B15. Dig the Oksner Lois Lane. Great, important character. If DC was going to reverse its stupid anti-supporting cast stance, Lois is the one most worthy of breaking through.

    B16. Looker. No elaboration necessary.

    B17. The Chen/Theakston Lord of Time goes for broke on Silver Age sheen and hits the jackpot. He should have been a bigger JLA villain. The grimmer portions of the history come from a then-recent Steel solo issue.

    B18. Was Lord Satanus the boy Satan Girl? I like this guy.

    B19. Ditto Lord Shilling, who was exactly what a Revolutionary War bad guy ought to be.

    B20. The Losers are so much cooler than Easy Company and the Howlin’ Commandos, probably because each was built to support solo strips. John Severin is the Leslie Nielsen of comics, a guy who built his career on serious work that is difficult to take seriously in retrospect because of his later broadly comedic work. I grew up on Cracked Magazine, which I favored over Mad in part because of Severin.

    B21. Siskoid, nobody want 4,000+ word articles on Martian Manhunter. Today’s post was 1,200, and I’ll be lucky to get a two line response. Also, I rarely cover 30+ characters in one go on a blog post. Besides, I pioneered the overly long F&W Podcast comment. You all came from THIS!

  18. Martin Gray says:

    ‘Regarding the Legion, all I can say is a quote from Geo-Force back during The Lightning Saga: “Superman, that’s not only ridiculous, it’s also insane.” Or, if you prefer, I’ll mention the Legion of Superfluous Heroes from Jim Valentino’s normalman, who began doing their role-call in the first issue and never actually finished!’

    @Luke Geo-Force made fun of someone else?

    And it seems Jim Valentino misses the point of the Legion, the clue being in the name. Still, let him take the mickey, Normalman is SUCH an icon …

  19. […] this panel as a nod to our latest WHO’S WHO PODCAST featuring Liberty Belle of the All-Star […]

  20. Siskoid says:

    @Frank: You are indeed the father of us all.

  21. @Martin, I’d suspect that among the target of audience of normalman, which is to say indy comics fans of the 80s, norm and Captain Everything are indeed “icons” far beyond the LOSH, as are other indy characters they appeared with including Megaton Man, Cerebus the Aardvark, and Wolverine MacAlistaire (who remains the only comic book character named Wolverine whom I give a crap about).

    Considering that normalman is a loving send-up of all genres of comics, not just superheroes, having the Legion Of Superfluous Heroes doing a role call for several issues is not the mean-spirited put down your comment seem to imply that it is.

    In the interest of fairness, I will mention that Valentino’s only credited connection with the LOSH is in Who’s Who In The LOSH (ironically).

    As far as Geo-Force, the line in question was in response to Superman telling the assembled JLA and JSA about his history with the LOSH, which no one save Superman actually remembered thanks to Crisis on Infinite Earths/Zero Hour/Infinite Crisis zaniness.

  22. Phylemon says:

    I am so behind on this. Some quick thoughts:

    1. Little Cheese shares the spotlight with Lightning Lad and Lois Lane, so what does that say?
    2.The Krypto entry makes me sad and nostalgic and I’m just not going to talk about it.
    3. Shag, the Red K entry is confusing, but not a typo. Although Red Kryptonite is unpredictable, a single piece of Kryptonite always works the same way. So, one piece of Red K may make Superman an insect and another may make Superman fat, the piece of Red K that makes Superman an insect would also make Supergirl an insect. Does that make sense? If not, just live by the old adage, “Don’t question the Silver Age”.
    4.Lady Quark has the most 80’s-tastic costume of all time.
    5. Can Laurel Kent be a candidate for hottest legionnaire? I might change my vote there.
    6. The Substitute Heroes are just awesome!
    7. So are the Super Pets. Love Beppo.
    8. Sorry, Shag, it does look like All Star Comics #8 is the debut, as it is the origin story, while Sensation #1 is written as if the reader already knows who Wonder Woman is.
    9. Maybe Edam Cheese is supposed to be, “Eat ’em Cheese”? I don’t know.
    10. Lord Satanis- Yeah, the text to picture ratio is way off here. Curt Swan could have done much more with more room to work.
    11. Didn’t Jack Kirby do The Losers for awhile? He could have drawn them and didn’t, so I guess that M. can crawl off.

  23. Sean Koury says:

    Geoff Johns did indeed bump off Little Cheese. Scott Shaw had plans to bring him back as Deadmouse, but DC never gave him the chance.

  24. […] sure to check out Episode Thirteen of the amazing Who’s Who: The Definitive Podcast of the DC Universe hosted by Rob Kelly and the […]

  25. […] sure to check out Episode Thirteen of the amazing Who’s Who: The Definitive Podcast of the DC Universe hosted by Rob Kelly and the […]

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