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Fire and Water and Wind! Episode 58 & George Perez Sketch

Firestorm and Aquaman: The Fire and Water PodcastThe 58th episode of THE FIRE AND WATER PODCAST is now available for your listening pleasure! THE FIRE AND WATER PODCAST is the official podcast of FIRESTORM FAN and THE AQUAMAN SHRINE.

This time around Rob and Shag welcome a special guest, author and comics reviewer Doug Zawisza! Doug has written for TwoMorrows Publishing, has been a Staff Reviewer for Comic Book Resources for the past five years, and has created numerous superhero blogs (but unfortunately most of them only have a couple posts). Doug is also something of a Red Tornado expert! Together we discuss a classic Satellite Era JLA story, “The Origin of Red Tornado” from Justice League of America #192 & 193 (1981). We’re gonna huff, and we’re gonna puff, and we’ll blow your iTunes in!

You can find the 58th episode of THE FIRE AND WATER PODCAST on iTunes. While you’re there, please drop us a review on the iTunes page. Every comment helps! Alternatively, you may download the podcast by right-clicking here, choosing “Save Target/Link As”, and selecting a location on your computer to save the file (39 MB).

As always, thanks to my co-host Rob Kelly, Sea King of THE AQUAMAN SHRINE, for doing all the post-production on these episodes! Opening theme, “That Time is Now,” by Michael Kohler. Special thanks to Daniel Adams and Ashton Burge with their band The Bad Mamma Jammas for our fantastic original closing theme! This episode brought to you in part by InStockTrades.com!

Be sure to check out Doug’s work:

Have a question or comment? Send us an e-mail at firewaterpodcast@comcast.net. Visit our Tumblr site at fireandwaterpodcast.tumblr.com.

In honor of this episode, check out the gorgeous George Perez sketch of Firestorm and Red Tornado done earlier this year!

Firestorm and Red Tornado sketch by George Perez 2013

Support Firestorm and Aquaman (and Red Tornado)! Fan the Flame and Ride the Wave (and Spin the Twister)!

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14 Comments

  1. Kyle Benning says:

    Another Great Episode guys!!! I love these Brave & the Bold/DC Presents style team-up episodes with other JL of Bloggers!

    This a great 2 issue story, I’d love to see you guys cover more Justice League of America Issues, such as the 183-185 arc that is rumored to be the basis for the Justice League movie, and of course Issue #200.

    Since Shag mentioned the Flash back-ups, it’d be nice to see those eventually covered, as well as JLA #179 when Firestorm joins up.

    Can’t wait for next week’s episode!

  2. In answer to your Facebook and Twitter questions, Shag…

    Best Gerry Conway story from DC: “The Ice-Slaves of Killer Frost” from DC COMICS PRESENTS featuring Superman and the return of Firestorm and Killer Frost. Drawn by JLGL (PBHN).

    Best George Perez story from DC: I could never get into the NEW TEEN TITANS, so I would say his more recent work on THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD with writer Mark Waid from 2007. Issue #2, in particular, which paired Green Lantern and Supergirl was especially good.

    Best Red Tornado story… Um, probably “The Tornado’s Path” story from JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA by Meltzer and Benes. Besides that, there was a great moment from the JUSTICE LEAGUE UNLIMITED cartoon where Wonder Woman was transformed into a pig and various leaguers helped Batman look for her. Seeing and hearing Red Tornado call out “Sooee! Sooee!” in a mechanized, robotic voice was… haunting.

  3. Siskoid says:

    Man, the Russell Burbage thing makes me glad the few embarrassing letters I got published weren’t in any comic potentially covered by Fire&Water.

    You already know what I think of Red Tornado.

  4. Siskoid says:

    I had the same module (of course) and the same floorplans (of course) and our team moved into the Satellite (retroactively not destroyed, just sold at auction). Favorite superhero HQ ever.

  5. Yeah, Siskoid, that is probably my least favorite letter about my least favorite comic, haha. ME singing the praises of Don Heck? Lord have mercy! I *think* they edited me to make it sound nicer than it was; on the other hand, the issue in question was not as bad as some of his other stuff. It was the issue where the JLA have their consciousnesses (?) switches into the bodies of “real” people. As Don Heck art went, it was OK.

    I got Perez to sign the 192 cover for me at last year’s NYC Con. :-)

  6. Siskoid says:

    At least you’re not praising VENOM #secretshame

  7. Frankly Hates Red Tornado (so very much) says:

    1. I was surprised to see The Fire & Water Podcast approach the character of Red Tornado, even if only to accommodate a guest appearance by Doug Zawisza. Having listened to the podcast, I can now say that I completely do not understand why an episode of the the Fire & Water Podcast approached the character of Red Tornado. The lack of a Doom Patrol link to Firestorm? Surely Shag would take the hit if it meant the podcast would not suffer befoulment by Reddy. I make a Red Tornado every time I flush when the ‘roids are acting up. Watching it spin down the drain is more entertaining and less of a butt hurt than any given appearance of ol’ John Smith.

    2. Zah-veesh-ah: Most phonetically discordant name since Sin-kev-itch.

    3. I learned to swim kind of late (5-6 y.o.) after a sorta-but-not-really-drowny experience. After training to develop this new power of aquatic motion, I sometimes imagined myself as Aquaman, but mostly leaned toward a Namor lift of my own devising (that happened to create water-hadouken like in the Aquaman cartoon.) You’d have thought I’d have incorporated my old water wings in there somehow, but no. I did use a towel as a cape, though.

    4. Out of curiosity, I compared the attendances of Motor City Con and Houston’s young Comicpalooza, and Doug can take heart that his city’s con bested mine by 10,000 people. Next year may be a different story, though.

    5. Rob’s Legion hate (indifference really) may be overstated, but we don’t talk enough about his anti-Marvel bigotry, clearly on a par with Scipio Garling (now there would be an amazing, galling podcast guest.) John Beatty is Mike Zeck’s inker of choice, which meant Beatty was too busy inking Captain America, Secret Wars and The Punisher (not to mention Michael Golden on The ‘Nam) to do much DC work in the ’80s. Beatty switched partners to Kelly Jones in the ’90s, embellishing all of Jones’ Batman work, as well as pinch hitting on Superman books. I really enjoy Beatty’s inks on the right artist, meaning guys with bold, confident lines without a bunch of crosshatching or feathering. Beatty was definitely better than his contemporary Romeo Tanghal when working over Perez, but that’s damning with faint praise, because neither had any aptitude for Perez’s intricacies.

    6. It took me a long time to appreciate Dick Dillin, and I’d still rather not look at Don Heck or George Tuska on JLA. By comparison, Perez’s JLA issues are a joy to look at, but they in no way compete with virtually anything else Perez has done before or since. I mocked Perez’s Crimson Plague in a previous podcast commentary, but it destroys this comic as a display of craft. I simply don’t want to read Perez creations over seeing him interpret the iconic heroes he does so well. I’m sorry to say, but the editorial team at DC Comics were idiots for not getting a top-of-the-line artist on JLA when Super Friends was on the air. On the rare instances I could find an issue as a kid, I’d be attracted by a swell Perez cover, then invariably put it back when I looked at the atrocious interiors. Then I’d go read an X-Men comic for a decade or so instead.

    7. What is the deal with Perez succeeding Dillin? I understand Dillin died of a heart attack, and Perez didn’t want to get his dream book under such tragic circumstances, but is that all there was to it? It seems like an overreaction, if so.

    8. One of my favorite comic creators of all time is Jim Starlin, who literally ran down continuity flashbacks in every issue of every comic he did in the ’70s and ’80s. I loved him for it, because if I missed an issue or came in late on a series, I could rely on Starlin to get me up to speed so I could thoroughly enjoy the story in front of me. That said, Starlin typically put all that stuff at the front of the issue, so if you were already familiar, you just skipped those pages and dove into the latest chapter. I think Shag’s complaint, which I share, is that all the Morrow/Reddy continuity slog is laced throughout the narrative like chunks of fat in an otherwise fine steak. Ever been in a restaurant, gotten one of those fat globs, and tried to either spit it into your napkin or swallow it whole? It’s disgusting, and the only way to avoid it is to skip the dish altogether.

    9. Worst mid-show break ever. Even worse than Rob’s silent treatment punishment episode. At least then I knew what the hell was going on.

    10. The Red Tornado mini-series was another heinous bait-and-switch on art. The house ad (clearly and necessarily inked by Klaus Janson) was intriguing, and then the book itself looked like ca-ca-doody. It never fails to irritate me when I see a strong penciller like Gil Kane marred by excessive inking, whereas Carmine Infantino desperately needed heavy embellishing help he didn’t receive nearly enough.

    11. How about the overwrought explanation as to how T.O. Morrow survived some forgettable appearances in books like Super-Team Family, but no reference is made to what his dumb ass was thinking sending two inferior Red Tornado duplicates to the satellite headquarters of the seven mightiest super-heroes in the world. The duo admittedly does well, but why not send ten, instead? If the goal was to kill the JLA, why not murder Green Lantern, Firestorm and Aquaman while they’re knocked out and isolated? If the goal was not to kill the JLA, why didn’t T.O. Morrow walk right into prison and get the inevitable over with? Why is Red Tornado still susceptible to Morrow’s mind control, anyway? Get the Atom in there to root that stuff out.

    12. It’s novel in the year 2013 how the hi-tech Red Tornado of 1981 was running around with an extension cord in his hollow chest cavity. He’s like the rotary phone of androids.

    13. #193 was Aquaman’s Afro Ninja moment. Such a great build up, only to get punked by T.O. Mahgod.

    14. Red Tornado’s ridiculous, convoluted origin is the antithesis of all that is good and right in comics. I swear by all that is holy, if I ever get the chance, I will destroy John Smith once and for all and rebuild the Red Tornado as something better, which would include a chunky housefrau in overalls with a pan on her head. At least Ma Hunkle inspired some semblance of positive emotions when she appeared.

  8. Martin Stein Returns says:

    Dudes, I told you it was Zah-VEE-sha months ago. But don’t listen to the half-Polish guy.

    Otherwise, fun episode. Count me in on the side that appreciates recapping for the uninitiated, and frankly would like to see more of that in modern comics (along with the return of 23 or more pages).

    Yeah, come to think of it (responding to Frank’s puzzlement as to why Red Tornado was featured on the F&WP), I think a little more in-depth look at the Elemental War would have been appropriate, since Red Tornado was a legit guess star for four straight issues of Firestorm. Plus, it would give Shag a chance to wax eloquent about the Elemental period of Firestorm, since he’s the only person in the world who liked it.

    (Just kidding. Sort of.)

  9. Martin Stein Returns says:

    Dudes, I told you it was Zah-VEE-sha months ago. But don’t listen to the half-Polish guy.

    Otherwise, fun episode. Count me in on the side that appreciates recapping for the uninitiated, and frankly would like to see more of that in modern comics (along with the return of 23 or more pages).

    Yeah, come to think of it (responding to Frank’s puzzlement as to why Red Tornado was featured on the F&WP), I think a little more in-depth look at the Elemental War would have been appropriate, since Red Tornado was a legit guest star for four straight issues of Firestorm. Plus, it would give Shag a chance to wax eloquent about the Elemental period of Firestorm, since he’s the only person in the world who liked it.

    (Just kidding. Sort of.)

  10. Martin Stein Returns says:

    Huh, I tried to change “guess” into “guest” in mid-submit and it posted twice. Sorry.

  11. rob! says:

    Not sure what happened with the show break. I always double-listen through each episode before posting it, but somehow I missed it. My apologies, folks.

  12. rob! says:

    UPDATE: I just tried to fix it, and got the exact same problem. The clip is from the Tornado Tyrant ep of B:BATB, and it sounds fine in Garageband, but when I export it into iTunes I get that weird noise over just that clip (and NOT the second Xmas one). Have no idea why, sorry everyone.

  13. Keith Samra says:

    I’m a bit late to the party this time around… I have only just finished listening to the podcast! Great episode guys. Really enjoyed this one. Enjoyed having Doug Zawisza as the special guest this week. Always nice to hear from other fans/podcasters.

    Unlike Shagg, I love these issues… And I haven’t read them yet! Robb and Doug have an infectious enthusiasm for these issues, and I’m determined to track them down. In fact I’d like to read Conway’s entire run.

  14. Doug says:

    Hey guys! Sorry to take so long to chip in. Thanks again to Rob-buh-buh and Shag-guh-guh (extra letters phonetically added in) for the chance to chat. Truly a fun experience.

    I was also wondering about the break audio, but simply shrugged my shoulders and went right back to mowing the lawn.

    And, yes, y’all. Zuh-VEE-shuh. It’s not everyone who is born into easy to pronounce last names, like Kelly and Matthews.

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