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WHO’S WHO: The Definitive Podcast of the DC Universe, Volume X

Who's Who: The Definitive Podcast of the DC UniverseThe Fire and Water Podcast Presents… WHO’S WHO: THE DEFINITIVE PODCAST OF THE DC UNIVERSE, Volume IX!

The tenth episode of our WHO’S WHO podcast is now available — the show that dares to tackle one of DC Comics’ greatest publications! Each episode Rob and I cover a single issue of the legendary 1980s series, Who’s Who: The Definitive Directory of the DC Universe. This time around we chat about WHO’S WHO: Volume X, discussing characters such as Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Hawkwoman, Hercules, Hippolyta, The Huntress, and many more! We wrap up the show with Who’s Who Listener Feedback! This episode sponsored in part by InStockTrades.com!

Be sure to check out our Tumblr site for several pages from this Who’s Who issue: FireandWaterPodcast.Tumblr.com!

Have a question or comment? Send us an e-mail at: firewaterpodcast@comcast.net

You can find the tenth episode of WHO’S WHO: THE DEFINITIVE PODCAST OF THE DC UNIVERSE on iTunes. Each episode is released as part of THE FIRE AND WATER PODCAST feed. While you’re on iTunes, please drop us a review. Alternatively, you may download the podcast by right-clicking here, choosing “Save Target/Link As”, and selecting a location on your computer to save the file (63 MB).

Thanks to my co-host Rob Kelly, Sea King of THE AQUAMAN SHRINE, for doing all the post-production on this episode! Special thanks to Daniel Adams and Ashton Burge with their band The Bad Mamma Jammas for our fantastic Who’s Who theme song!

One of the coolest aspects of each Who’s Who issue was the amazing wrap-around cover! Check out this impressive Paris Cullins and Dick Giordano cover for Volume X! Click the image to enlarge.

Who’s Who: The Definitive Directory of the DC Universe Volume X by Paris Cullins and Dick Giordano

Here is your Firestorm-related Who’s Who entry from this issue…

It’s everyone’s favorite were-monster, The Hyena! Good ole Summer Day in all her furry glory! Fantastic Art by Rafael Kayanan! Click the image to enlarge!

Who's Who entry for Hyena by Rafael Kayanan

Support Firestorm (and the WHO’S WHO podcast)! Fan the flame!

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24 Comments

  1. I posted this on the Aquaman Shrine and on the FW Podcast blog, but you’re right, Shag, and Rob is wrong. In Hawkman’s first appearance in FLASH Comics #1, Hawkman’s flight is credited to Carter Hall discovering “the secret of the ages — the NINTH Metal”. I don’t know what the Periodic Table of Elements looked like in the 1920s when Gardner Fox was in school, but clearly smarter heads prevailed later on down the line and Ninth Metal was changed to Nth.

    Also, Shiera was originally colored with black hair. She became a brunette with FLASH Comics #11.

    Hawkman’s yellow Luchador-style mask is horrible. My favorite versions of Hawkman and Hawkgirl/woman’s helmets are the versions depicted by Kubert and Smith in this Who’s Who entry.

    I love Hourman. He’s one of my favorite characters from the Golden Age Justice Society for the reasons you and Rob laid out. His costume is classic, and his powers are so fundamentally simple to grasp. You can do so much with that character that I hope he makes a comeback sometime soon!

    When I think of Huntress, I think of Helena Bertinelli. She’s the Huntress I read about first and most often. Her presence is sorely missed from the New 52 BIRDS OF PREY. (So is Oracle’s.)

    I was talking to my friend, Paul, about the New 52 books MEN OF WAR and G.I. COMBAT and someone’s theory that DC never expected these anthology books to last very long but released them only as a way to maintain control over properties like “The War That Time Forgot” and “Haunted Tank”. Paul said, “Haunted what-now?” and I proceeded to tell him about it. After about thirty seconds, he declared Haunted Tank his favorite thing in the world. Paul, by the way, is my partner on the web comic, Red and Green: http://redandgreencomic.tumblr.com

  2. Siskoid says:

    Cover: Is it a lens flare on the earring or Hyathis’ spell/power? Same yellow circle effect and pointed in her direction. Not that it explains what’s going on.

    Letters’ page: Says they accidentally omitted the Crumbler, but that he would be in a future update (is this the first announcement that there would be updates?). In any case, the Crumbler never did appear. LIES!!!

    Gunner & Sarge: Oh Shag, you should track down Kirby’ Losers (there’s an Omnibus, it’s awesome crazy). I’m not sure where Pooch went when he wasn’t with G&S, maybe it’s a line to cover the fact he’s not in every Losers mission. Did you know they retroactively made him Rex the Wonder Dog’s brother. Well they did.

    Gypsy: An important entry for me because I traced over her to create a DC Heroes RPG pic for a friend of mine’s long-running player character Salome. I used to make Who’s Who entries for my players, see (are we surprised?). Dr. Mid-Nite became the Raven. Sgt Rock became Renegade. I should find those sheets and scan them sometime.

    Halo: The colors let the entry down (ironically). I like how the subprint is sequential with her main pic, but because the subprint is green and the halo is pink, they don’t actually merge together at all well. And what’s with her power blast being invisible? And hate the new haircut. The villain… is that Meltdown maybe? I DON’T WANT TO CHECK BECAUSE OUTSIDERS.

    Harbinger: English being my second language and the absence of a pronunciation key means I called her Harbinger with a hard “g” (Harbing-grrr). Shame.

    Harlequin: The wives stayed young because… sexually transmitted Ian Karkull?

    Haunted Tank: Big fan of this concept, love the Showcase Presents despite the repetitive nature of the stories, love Sam Glanzman’s war comics, love the logo… The return of the Tank in recent years, either in the New52 or before in Vertigo, bringing it forward to the present day were mistakes, in my opinion. As for the Confederate flag thing, the Vertigo mini-series addressed it full on (in black comedy) by having a Jeb Stewart’s current descendent be black, a result of some indiscretion between the Confederate general and a slave. Like I said, concept worked better in its pure WWII form.

    Hawk Son of Tomahawk: Kubert and Thorne worked together on a number of great-looking comics, including another famous son, Korak Son of Tarzan.

    Hawk & Dove: Yeah, they’re more relevant today than they ever were. Superheroes by Fox News. The female Dove is a much better character, but they also played down the pacifism angle. She was more about defense, order and empathy, while Hawk was offense, chaos and rage.

    Hawkgirl and Hawkman: A beautiful pic, I just wish Hawkman of Earth-2 had followed suit. The original Hawkman is the least of all the Hawk entries. Floating heads, dull dull dull. Controversy: I think it was ninth metal in the original stories, but I’ve got to check it out at home in Archives books. Pretty sure though. It was changed later. Luke will know.

    Hawkman II: Thanks for spending this much time on Hawkman. He’s the main guy of the issue after all, and it’s a great entry.

    Hawkwoman: So sexy. The subprint makes the Hawks look a bit older though… but the color pic is awesome.

    Heat Wave: The Flash’s expression between Heat Wave’s legs, where he’s turning into a McDLT, is hilarious.

    Hector Hammond: While I agree, it’s a dynamic illustration, but Gil’s GL is always in the same basic poses whatever is happening. I have a Comics Journal interview with him somewhere where he cops to tracing his own work and, in his younger days, others’. There’s a lot of honest self-deprecation in the interview, but when I see some of the poses he uses, I think back to that interview.

    Helix: I think Helix looks kind of cool, but his weaknesses show in the head shots on the side. Tao Jones really loves to spin her bracelets like hula-hoops, doesn’t she? Ok, ok, I guess there’s a reason why only Mr. Bones survived to this day, and even he ditched the Black Terror costume. Roy Thomas trying to legacy his own Arak (Son of Thunder, not Wind-Walker) into a modern character was a big fail too.

    HALF WAY POINT!

  3. Siskoid says:

    Hercules… UNBOUND! If there’s a problem with the first appearance, it’s that Wonder Woman #1 would have featured an Earth-2 Hercules, right? And Unbound had to be Earth-1 because the Atomic Knights were in it. We need a Crisis to fix this.

    Heroes of Lallor: Beast Boy and Captain Comet were very much separated at birth. Yeah, these guys deserve a Who’s This? entry. I love Evolvo Lad for all the wrong reasons, and the girls are pretty. But I need to look up their early adventures for sure. Just goes to show the Legion may have a big roster, but they can’t patrol the entire universe. Their first appearance was Adventure Comics #324 (1964).

    Highfather: Young DeSaad in the subprint creeps me out.

    Hippolyta: Back when she was blond. The pronunciation is in the public domain, and Rob knows his Greek mythology. Sorry Shag. (And yeah, you can blame Haney for Wonder Girl. He created the Teen Titans.)

    HIVE: I was not a big New Teen Titans fan (I’d call my interest intermittent and quickly forgotten), so no clue on your HIVE question, though I sort of doubt the members actually featured as one-shot villains before. That’s the kind of continuity shenanigans we see a lot of now (like on that mad scientist island), but not so much back then. I certainly can’t find a membership listing on the Internet. Because of the Marv Wolfman connection, I like to think they’re all Dial H for Hero villains.

    Hop Harrigan: Another target for my Who’s This? series. Like a lot of Golden Age non-super heroes, he appeared in a lot of stories, and yet is completely forgotten today.

    Houngan: Before I became a voodoo priest myself, I didn’t know how to pronounce Houngan. Another one who required a pronunciation key. I may have told a lie in there somewhere. Guess what it is. I’d also like to take you guys to task on repeatedly saying George Perez was never allowed to ink his own stuff, because that’s not really the truth in Who’s Who, is it? Elsewhere, maybe, but not here. Did Houngan steal a pair of Iron Man’s pants?

    Hourman: This is a good issue for All-Star Squadron’s featured characters. Hawkgirl and Hourman were heavily featured and became instant favorites (along with half-mask Dr. Fate and Robotman). I always took the nickname as something maybe the media called him? As a chemicals tycoon?

    Hourman II: Ugh. Silly costume, lots of empty space and the action relegated to a tiny little fight in the subprint…

    Human Bomb: It would be fair to say he’s my favorite Freedom Fighter.

    Human Target: And I was a big fan of the Peter Milligan Vertigo series too.

    Hunter’s Hellcats: Who’s This target, for sure! There’s obviously a problem with name attribution in the sidebar because Juggler is not the guy with the goatee in the main pic. I do like the concept and the logo, and Heller’s hot.

    Huntress II: Bertinelli for the win, she was mine too even though I read a few of Helena Wayne’s back-ups in Wonder Woman, but I do like how she works as Batman’s daughter. One of Staton’s best pieces, I think so too.

    Hyathis: Post-Crisis (Hawkworld), they brought her back without the starfish motif. She was Hawkwoman’s grandmother.

    Hyena: My first Firestorm villain, and incredibly disturbing because of the gender-bending I think. So is this the only completely naked chick in the whole series?

  4. Frank says:

    a) I used to try to work out ways for Hawkman to use the Blackhawks cry, too. I understand you in this moment, Rob.

    b) Much better cover from Paris than usual. Heroic Hawkman, characters existing on a physical structure that recedes appropriately, and Cullins even managed to work the Confederate tank in there (inappropriately?) On the other hand, individual characters are drowning at figural sea and the inks are crap. I like Giordano, but he’d be a stretch as a demigod.

    c) Holy Hell! A Bel Juz reference in the lettercol? I did not know this existed. You know who else isn’t even a demigod? Len Wein. To defend the entirely valid point of Michael “My Soul Brother from Another Mother” Cleveland (who perhaps is a demigod, or at least has Adonis blood,) Bel Juz made four comic appearances across two decades, not unlike Commander Blanx, whose two appearances retroactively caused the formation of the Justice League and saw the initial depopulation of Mars that has held true since 1969. His contributions clearly pale before the significance of Harpis of the Omega Men. Sure, Zook co-starred in the majority of Martian Manhunter stories published for five straight years, but Helix was like the #1 foes of Infinity Inc. in their three appearances contemporaneous to this copy of Who’s Who. Pull the other one.

    d) Gyp-SAY! See. Still doing it. Peachy Chuck Patton illustration for a character he hated. I love this entry, and found it appealing and visually informative even before I really knew anything about the character. Gypsy’s gone through a bunch of revisions since this Cyndi Lauper phase, but my favorite remains Sal Velluto’s from early issues of Justice League Task Force. Martian Manhunter has demonstrated a clear open door/low bar policy for membership in the Justice League based on Gypsy’s entry and the existences of JLI, JLTF, and let’s be honest, the New 52 Justice League of America. Hate away, Katana faithful.

    e) Oh, and Halo. The sky would simply crumble upon our collective heads if the stupid f’ed-up origin of Halo and her Rainbow Sperm/Contrast Egg meta-ferilization demonstration unitard wasn’t made available in a reference source. Our lives are enriched by frigging Halo, right? How long will this take Baba? How long have we been sleeping? Do you see me hanging on to every word you say?

    f) Really great looking Harbinger image that almost makes you forget that she was never more than a device in search of a characterization. I’m still amazed by how many creators used Harbinger in their books without offering her the slightest spark of life, like an easy lay bereft of a discernible personality that they used solely to relieve themselves. It makes me existentially mournful.

    g) Ian Karkull sprinkled pixie dust on the heroes’ and villains’ supporting casts as well. Roy Thomas doesn’t miss an incredulously convenient trick. I dug Molly as Alan’s suffering geriatric love during his revitalization, but lost interest once they became Grandma and Grandpa WASP again. As for the Harlequin legacy, I actually kinda liked the slutty one from the Balent issues whose story to my recollection was never resolved, but who really cared once the role of temptress was rendered moot by Viagra not having been invented yet?

    h) I think Lobo murdered Bedlam in one of the last issues of Omega Men, or maybe an early issue of L.E.G.I.O.N.? Retcon? You know who else didn’t get an entry? Bedlam. One of the only Omega Men I would have an interest in reading an entry for? Badlam. Trade paperback by Nick Spencer I need to read this week? Bedlam.

    i) I won’t razz Tom O’Hawk on account of Rob and Frank Thorne. Isolate the main figure and hang it on the wall as a pop art print.

    j) Steve Ditko created Hawk & Dove as propaganda to use Hawk as his proxy to belittle hippies. Steve Skeates then wrote his scripts specifically to undermine Ditko’s point and build up Dove, which is why Ditko quit early into the mere six issue run of their crappy series. I hate these characters lots, but not screwing with them in our current political environment is a missed opportunity. Instead, we get The Movement, which makes my bowels irritable.

    k) Steve Rude Hawkgirl is full of win. Let me just say that my love here is as pure as some of my previous comments were sordid. Shiera Hall had brown hair in the Golden Age, as can be seen in her four cover appearances on Flash Comics.

    l) Never minded the Earth 2 luchador Hawkman mask to differentiate, but it’s obviously inferior to the screaming eagle mask with the tongue sticking out. It’s worth noting that Julie Schwartz said that the Kubert drawn issues of his series didn’t sell nearly as well as the Murphy Anderson ones, and the book didn’t get conjoined with the Atom and canceled until after Anderson left. Dick Dillin is the clear Lazenby here.

    m) Regardless, that Kubert piece is stunning and completely owns the Anderson one, assisted at least in part by Hawkman’s best ever logo. I have affection for the Thanagar stuff, but it’s such a blatant Flash Gordon rip-off that I have to prefer the Golden Age one if only on the grounds of intellectual property ethics. No The Shadow War of Hawkman trade. Also: no god. Best to just get used to the idea now, kids.

    n) I have near boundless adoration for ’80s Paul Smith art, and find this fantastic, but the Kubert Hawkman still wins. Shayera needs to be in the upcoming movies over Katar Hol/Carter Hall. To repeat from a previous comment on another blog, I officially fancast Jessica Chastain as Hawkwoman and Rachel Nichols as Mera. You may applaud my vision now. Having only one hand available for applause is acceptable and understood. Just slap your pelvis on the downstroke.

  5. Anthony Durso/The Toyroom says:

    Another fun podcast gents!

    By this point I’m pretty much burned out on these Paris Cullins covers anyway but this
    one really irks me, what with the massive exodus from the back cover to the front. Just looks
    like an utter mess.

    Now on to the main entries…

    Gunner and Sarge: Didn’t the Losers die differently in their Crisis tie-in special than they did
    in “Crisis on Infinite Earths” #3? I seem to recall that the two stories didn’t jive with each other.

    Gypsy: Even though I was an avid reader of Justice League Detroit at the time I’n not really sure why…

    Halo: Love Jim Aparo, love The Outsiders…what more is there to say? Well how about I normally thought of Halo as a “fun” character and yet she seems to be channeling Katana’s scowl in this portrait.

    Harbinger: It must be a bitch for anyone else to draw a Perez designed costume besides George Perez…LOL. Good thing no one did.

    Harlequin: Ennnh

    Harpis:

    Haunted Tank: I think this deserved a full-page spread ala Easy Company

    Hawk, Son of Tomahawk: I haven’t cared for these characters since I was hornswoggled into
    buying “Superman Salutes the Bicentennial”!

    Hawk and Dove: Like Captain Atom, another Denys Cowan entry that makes me wonder why they just didn’t get Ditko to do it.

    Hawkgirl: Steve Rude is great but a pic of Hawkgirl (a FLYING character) just standing there is boring.

    Hawkman: Normally I’d be all over a Murphy Anderson Hawkman drawing but this one is just blah.

    Hawkman: Hands down my favorite artwork in this issue!

    Hawkwoman: Paul Smith is an unusual choice. But at least he captures Shayera flying. A bigger pic would’ve been nice too.

    Heat Wave: In the surprint…what happened to his other eye in the headshot behind the main pic?

    Hector Hammond: There was a similar evolved man in one of those Gil Kane “Superman Specials” in the 80s. I wonder if that was an altered Hector Hammond story?

    Helix: I agree with Shag 100%. This is just stupid.

    Hercules Unbound: Hercules meet the Atomic Knights in an alternate Earth-1 future. But weren’t the Atomic Knights just declared a dream of Gardner Grayle’s by the time of “Who’s Who” #1? (Yes, I just noticed they indeed reference that in Hercules’ entry)

    Heroes of Lallor: Big Legion fan but let me be the first to say that, in pro wrestling terms, these guys are “jobbers”! Put them against The Wanderers and I don’t really care who wins.

    Highfather: Actually I think Izaya is pronounced just like Isiah. Kirby trying to be cute.

    Hippolyta: I’ve always said HIP-POL-LIT-TA

    HIVE: I want to say that Marv Wolfman himself was behind the creation of the HIVE in Superman Family. I thought I read that before.

    Hop Harrigan: One of the few “DC” characters during the 40s (along with Superman, Blackhawk, Vigilante, Congo Bill, Captain Marvel) to get their own movie serial.

    Houngan: See “Harbinger”

    Hourman: This has always been my go-to artwork whenever I’ve need a picture of Hourman for something.

    Hourman II: This will never be my go-to artwork whenever (IF-ever) I need a picture of Hourman II for something.

    Human Bomb: He could use some inflation in his arms and legs…

    Human Target: I wish DC did more with this character back in the day. His more recent reboots were
    OK but not the Christopher Chance I prefer…

    Hunter’s Hellcats: Were these guys part of the Omega Men too?

    Huntress (I): It always bothers me when the character has their boot propped up on absolutely nothing…

    Huntress (II): Love the original Helena Wayne Earth-2 version. Accept no substitutes!

    Hyathis: I always pronounced this similar to the flower hyacinth, which I always thought they were
    going for with her hair..

    Hyena: Poor man’s Wolfsbane…. :) (I kid!)

    Looking forward to Is and Js!

  6. Anthony Durso/The Toyroom says:

    Hmmmm…my comment for Harpis (Insert obligatory full-page Omega Men comment here) never materialized….

  7. @Frank – Sorry, but it’s a lot more likely that Zoe Saldana will be cast as both Hawkgirl and Mera.

    About a year ago, I found used copies of the “Shadow War of Hawkman” mini for fifty cents an issue. That was the best cup o’ coffee I never bought!

    I also got the recent “Legends of the Dark Knight: JIM APARO” collection because I love me some Jim Aparo. Unfortunately, the book was entirely made up of his BRAVE AND THE BOLD stories written by Bob Haney, and a lot of those tales are unreadable.

  8. Okay, WTH is going on with The Hyena? So somehow Summer Day changes into a MALE were-hyena? How crazy is that? And by crazy I mean stupid. Besides that, even this character is buck-naked, her groin is perpetually in shadow? Shag, if you call “foul!” that Hourman’s mask is always in shadow, how can Summers’ (lack of) penis always be hidden? Why didn’t she keep her pants on, and make the whole question about “it’s” gender moot? Sorry, but until s/he shows some true nudity or puts some clothes on, I give this character two thumbs way way down.

    PS
    She never looked more like an actual hyena than she did in her debut. After that she was just a were-wolf wannabe.

  9. Doug says:

    I LOVE Rafael Kayanan, but why did he draw Hyena doing a touchdown dance?

  10. Frank says:

    s) Like Shag, my experiences with the Heroes of Lallor were as people that got mentioned in Legion comics I read but I’ve never read stories about, and would surely be disappointed if I did. I think it was one of those “if we get into trouble, we might have to call the Heroes of Lallor in,” but for whatever reason it never happens and the reference amounts to nothing. It’s like how old timey Southern women would excuse themselves on account of “the vapors,” which sounds like a big deal until you find out it’s a euphemism for flatulence. Kudos to Karl Kesel for erasing as much of Curt Swan’s presence as possible.

    t) Maybe after Helix I’m on pun alert, but “Life Lass?” I even started wondering if Highfather could score me some kush, cuz the spliff is the Source, so use that finger of fate to light me up, Holmes. “I could have drawn a sweet Izaya, but I got high (Uh uh la la da da)” Theakston FTL? Anyway, I hear Matt Fraction’s going to go “Game of Thrones” on Inhumans at Marvel, whereas DC is going to continue to treat Darkseid like a video game level boss and blow off the rest of the Fourth World Saga. Such vision.

    u) Nice downlow horndoggery by Jerry Ordway on Hippolyta. Pronunciation is a whole thing with this character, because you used to be able to determine either Pre/Post-Crisis or Earth 1/2 versions of the character by whether it was Hippolyta or Hippolyte. Just don’t ask me which is which, because I don’t care that much.

    The surprint at bottom right kills, because there’s a Wonder Woman family that only barely ever existed and would soon be forever destroyed. Because of the whole Wonder Woman as a girl/Teen Titans screw-up that caused the creation of Donna Troy, Wonder Girl was basically disowned by the Wonder Woman title for years. Inroads were made by the inclusion of the character in the TV show and the sale-boosting potential of guest appearances after New Teen Titans blew up. Then Perez decided to reboot Princess Diana from scratch, which led to Donna’s awful retcon origin involving the Titans of Myth in outer space, and then Byrne made her a magical clone shuffled to alternate realities instead, and then she died and was resurrected from Wally West’s memories, and then and then and then… Short version being, there isn’t a legit Wonder Woman Family, and all signs
    point to there never being one.

    v) Once again, George Perez goes all out on an impressive illustration featuring characters he created and nobody wants to read about. H.I.V.E. is jive– A.I.M tailored out of Salem.

    w) Speaking of which, if Deathstroke is the evil version of Captain America, does that make Houngan the mirror universe Brother Voodoo? I respect the New Brotherhood of Evil because they were an eclectic bunch that seemed reasonably competent, which makes them as equivalently superior to contemporaneous villainous teams as the Titans were to the Outsiders and Infinity Inc.

    Besides having one of the most densely detailed pieces in the book, I totally dig how Houngan is a sci-fi take on black magic, a very progressive/Marvel twist on what could have been a more problematic element.

    x) Ugh. Hourman. I’m fond of exactly none of its many iterations. I now appreciate how unique his color scheme is (both pictured versions,) but the costume designs were so lousy that I became prejudiced against the color combinations (again, both pictured versions.) So many premature ejaculation/pill-popper jokes, but Hourman’s not worth the time to type them.

    y) Human Bomb? This is the type of character made to be twisted up or killed off in a modern age story.
    Human Target is a much better TV concept than a comic book one.

    z) Lt. Hunter’s Hellcats actually ran for three years in Our Fighting Forces (#106-123), preceded by seven issues of Capt. Phil Hunter’s Vietnam era stories.

    aA) Huntress/Tigress is cool. I dug how they built a whole legacy around her, Sportsmaster, Artemis I, and even retconned her as an inspiration to Helena Wayne/Bertinelli. Fun art.

    bB) I like how beefy Staton drew the Huntress. Not fat, but thick, like he was making up for the cheesecake of the early serials by giving her serious muscle here, without sacrificing her femininity. Huntress was always the best part of reading period Wonder Woman comics, and the coolest Infinitor (damning with faint praise x2?) While I think Helena Bertinelli was ultimately the better version of the character, the comic world would benefit from a hybridization of the best elements of both.

    cC) Hyathis is due a comeback. She was fairly important to the JLA and Hawkman in their early days, but no one is so concerned about her that you can’t do a massive, necessary revision. On the art front, Richard Howell was never any good. He lived or died on the heavy-handedness of his inker, and there’s no Alfredo Alcala here to save him.

    dD) WTF is up with Firestorm and furrie foes? Weird but rad art for a stupid freakin’ concept.

    eE) Dale Gunner? You’re the douche, douche. Dale Gunn is m’man, even if he had no spine in the face of Heywood Senior! Dude cut the checks though.

    fF) Thought I forgot Hop Harrigan? How could there not have been an horrific fate dreamed up by some modern day hack by now, or at least reveal that he was really
    1) a reincarnation of Prince Khufu
    2) an alias of Resurrection/Immortal Man
    3) The grandfather of some lame Chromium Age character in need of a legacy to get that coveted JSA All-Stars spot.
    4) DC’s latest gay character to be outed only because Marvel announced another one, and really, what other use do they have for him these days?

  11. Frank says:

    I tried to throw more of that reply at Rob, but could only get through o-r thanks to character limits at Blogspot. For once, I guess I can kinda see their point.

  12. Anj says:

    Another great podcast guys. I can’t get me enough of Who’s Who. I have decided to keep my comments brief, picking out the entries which struck me the most.

    Harpis – I love Shawn McManus’ art on Omega Men, one of the few things I did love about that book. I find it ironic that Blackfire and the Citadel are responsible for her powers as Komand’r was created the same way (albeit with a dose of Psion science in there). I think the sexy pic in the surprint is Harpis before her transformation.

    Hawk and Dove – I have to admit that I like these characters but I like the female Dawn as Dove much much more. The changing of Dove from being a pacifist to an agent of Order. I agree with Rob … how can you be a super-hero if you don’t want to act! While I don’t like Rob Liefeld, I was bummed that Sterling Gates didn’t get more of a chance on the New 52 version.

    Hawkgirl by Steve Rude is just beautiful.
    Hawkwoman by Paul Smith is stunning.

    Hawkman by Joe Kubert has to be one of the most dramatic illustrations in all of Who’s Who. Just a great image.

    Hector Hammond – I think Gil Kane snuck his initials into the picture on the patch on Hammond’s suit coat.

    Helix – as someone who thinks the pun is the highest form of comedy I love Tao Jones and Penny Dreadful as comic book character names. Just sublime!

    Huntress 1 – She ended up playing a bigger role in Infinity Inc when her daughter (with Sportsmaster) become Artemis (which we will see in one of the Who’s Who updates). This is the template for the Young Justice Artemis recently seen on that show.

    Hyathis – okay, I know she is goofy. But I also know you guys like personal comics stories. I can remember as a kid somehow getting hold of some JLA comics where Thanagar was suffering from the ‘Equalizing Plague’, a disease where everybody regressed to the mean and life stalled as no one had any creativity or impetus to act. Everyone even sort of looked the same. It terrified me as a kid.

    Then Hyathis came to Thanagar and cured everyone of the Equalizing plague. But she distributed it in the form of rain. It was this almost religious passage drawn by Dick Dillin, achingly beautiful as we see the suffering Thanagarians looking up to the skies, hands outstretched, drinking in their salvation, baptized by her cure.

    Even though I don’t have the issues any more I can still see those panels in my mind, the mark of excellent comic story-telling.

    As a result I have a soft spot in my heart for the character. And reverance for Dick Dillin’s JLA work.

    Finally, I understand that the hottest Legionnaire discussion is on the whole body of work of the characters, not just their Who’s Who pages. But I will find it amusing to hear Shag declare Phantom Girl the hottest Legionnaire while he talks about her Who’s Who entry.

  13. Anj says:

    After looking at my last comment, I realize I wasn’t exactly brief.

  14. Siskoid says:

    Don’t worry about brevity Anj, the Who’s Who podcast’s comment section is my favorite comment section of them all.

  15. Siskoid says:

    Hottest Legionnaire debate, some thoughts…

    It really should be SEVERAL contests.

    Hottest Legionnaire in Who’s Who.
    Hottest Legionnaire in Who’s Who in the Legion.
    Hottest Legionnaire in each era of the comics.

    And while we’re being very boysy about this, there really should be some hottest male Legionnaire prizes as well.

  16. Keith Samra says:

    Short and sweet, awesome episode guys.

    Really appreciated the high praise for “The Dude”Steve Rude! one of my favourite artists in the industry!

    Also Jerry Ordway is most commonly refered to as the “Ordster” or my personal favourite… “Big Jerry”

  17. Kyle Benning says:

    Hello Rob & Shag! Long time listener, first time writer (at least in depth like this). I recently went back and listened to all of these in order from the beginning, and by recently, I mean the past 5 days at work. Thank you for putting out a great podcast that I can listen to at work! I have a few comments on some past episodes before I go into my break downs of episodes of issues #9 & 10.

    Thank you for touching on the Darkseid pronunciation debate. I don’t know if either of you have ever seen the Toy Hunter show on Travel channel, the guy in that I believe is from Rob’s stomping grounds. He did a Super Powers themed episode, and like every other episode, he kept spouting off blatantly wrong information, including pronouncing Darkseid as Darkseed at least 100 times in the episode. I was about to pick up my TV and throw it out the window. Obviously he’s a poser nerd, and not cool like the rest of us, otherwise if he had seen a single episode of Super Powers he would have realized how stupid he sounded.

    Shag mentioned never being able to get into Deadman, I highly recommend that he checks out New 52 DCU Presents #1-5 that focused on Deadman, and I thought that was a pretty great story, one of the real gems story arcs out of a generally lackluster New 52. I hope Deadman eventually gets his own Ongoing in one of the upcoming New 52 Waves, so that he can have an absolutely awesome series that is then cancelled prematurely. *insert sad waa waa waaaaaa noise here* I also really dug the Deadman series that was drawn by the great Dan Jurgens in Action Comics Weekly.
    I share Shag’s love for the Paris Cullins covers and Paris’s awesome work on Blue Beetle and Blue Devil. I think Who’s Who is probably Paris Cullins best cover on the Who’s Who series, man do I love that one! I recently got to meet Mr. Cullins at SpringCon in St. Paul, Minnesota, it’s a great Con every year, and features a lot of greats like Dan Jurgens, Pat Gleason, Phil Hester, and Doug Mahnke who all appear each year. This year Paris Cullins was added to the guest list and man was he a blast to meet. He may be one of the all-around most positive and enthusiastic creators who ever worked in the comic industry. He is still very passionate about the industry and was a blast to talk to, he was very passionate about Blue Devil, and had so much love for the character still to this day. You can tell he loved working on the character, and loved the innocence and fun that the DC Universe had in the 80’s. He shared a great story with me, of how he really got his big break at DC, when he moved from an inker to penciller, thanks to him helping out in a major time crunch. He said one day he walked into DC HQ and was called back into the JLA editor Len Wein’s office, to be told that they the regular artist Rich Buckler was behind and only had 2 pages done, and the book was due tomorrow. They asked Paris if he could pencil the remaining pages for the entire comic…in 24 hours!! And guess what? He did it! He said he penciled on the train and bus on the way home, stayed up all night, and completed the entire issue (except for the 2 Buckler pages) in 24 hours. It was an amazing anecdote, and crazy to think that he could do a whole issue in 24 hours when Jim Lee can’t even stay on schedule for more than 2 months in a row. Of course I had to get my Firestorm issue #24 signed by Cullins, which featured a Blue Devil back-up story. I was also able to get the issue co-signed by Pablo Marcos, who inked Cullins on that issue, who was also a guest this year at SpringCon. Unfortunately I was unable to get a Cullins’ sketch, due to spending my money on a sketch from another incredible guest at SpringCon this year….Jose Luis Garcia Lopez! I picked up this awesome Superman sketch from Jose.
    [IMG]http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k607/Kyle41/IMG_20130519_162641_328_zpsb0fdee55.jpg[/IMG]

    Obviously it was worth every single penny. I hope to meet Cullins again, and get a Blue Devil and Blue Beetle sketch. I would recommend SpringCon to everyone, you should really try to make it some year, and it’s totally worth it for the sole reason of getting to chat with Dan Jurgens in person every year.
    Here’s my personal Who’s Who story. I’m probably a little younger than a lot of the people who share these stories, as I’m only 25. I first got into comics at a pretty young age, as I first just looked at the pictures until I began to learn reading using comics. I inherited a fairly large comics collection from my dad’s brothers, who unfortunately had MD and passed away. Being wheelchair bound while growing up in rural Iowa on a dairy farm, 10 miles outside of a small town of 500 people, there was little my uncles had for entertainment. So they got into comics and had subscription to comics like GI JOE, Transformers, Fantastic Four, Superman, Green Lantern, and many others including Who’s Who, Crisis, and even DC Sampler. When they passed away when I was very young, I inherited all of their comics. Some of these, such as the Byrne Fantastic Four, Who’s Who, and Crisis comics are arguably some of the greatest superhero comics ever produced. So I was incredibly spoiled growing up with my first exposure to comics being some of the greatest ever. I think that’s why even though the comics were produced before I was born, the 80’s will always be my favorite era of comics, and definitely the era, especially with DC that identify with the most. Sadly most of my issues are very worn out from being looked at so much with less than careful hands when I was little. I guess it’s time I should try to replace those with copies in better conditions.
    EPISODE #9
    Regarding the cover, Shag mentioned that all of the Green Lanterns were coming out of a giant Lantern symbol, I may be mistaken, but I believe that it wasn’t simply the Lantern symbol, but that it’s actually supposed to be the Central Power Battery on Oa. I believe that was the Power Battery design at the time in the comics. It’s disappointing that the Power Battery itself didn’t get its own Who’s Who listing.
    I agree with the sentiments of both of you that Geo-Force never really broke through. It really seemed like there was a big push by DC to make Geo-Force (and maybe the whole Outsiders) relevant by setting up Geo-Force as major player in Crisis. He is one of the 15 characters plucked from multiple earths by Harbinger in issue #1 of Crisis.
    I laughed so hard when Shag said Granny Goodness was hot; I spit NOS energy drink all over my computer monitor at work.
    Gordanians appeared (fairly) recently in what might be my favorite Batman Brave & the Bold episode, the one where Aquaman is depressed because he wasn’t able to stop some illegal whaling; he spends most of the episode depressed but accompanies Batman to Rann with Adam Strange to stop the Gordanians who have enslaved Rann. Aquaman finds his true hero spirit in the end, and helps Batman and Adam Strange defeat the Gordanians. They also appeared in the Justice League and Justice League Unlimited cartoons.
    Speaking of the great Batman Brave & the Bold cartoon, and Who’s Who, did you ever notice that Green Arrow, which was portrayed as the Golden Age Green Arrow in the cartoon, had his quiver over the wrong shoulder in the show? In the comics the strap goes over his right shoulder, including in his portrayal in Who’s Who. But in the B&B cartoon his quiver was always shown over his left shoulder. Wow I’m a nerd for noticing that, but not as big of a nerd as Shag with all of his role playing games.

    EPISODE 10
    Regarding Harbinger becoming weaker the more dupes she has, yes that is touched upon in Crisis issue #1. After plucking the 15 characters from multiple timelines and Earths, just before she blacks out and pulls back the dupes into one form, she mentions how much it drains her and makers her weak. That’s why she blacks out and is missing when the Anti-Monitor’s shadow creatures attack the assembled heroes and villains inside of the Monitor’s ship.
    I agree with Shag, the 4th World Entries and all of the drama is like something off of a soap opera or Dallas. All of the back stabbing and drama always triggers a voice in my head chanting “Jerry, Jerry, Jerry” whenever I look at these old entries.
    Terry Beatty would very shortly be a pretty consistent contributor to DC , as the co-creator of Wild Dog, which premiered less than 2 years later, got its own mini, and then a decent run of stories, all penciled by Beatty in the pages of Action Comics weekly. Who’s Who must have just been his foot into the door at DC; obviously they liked what they saw from his Who’s Who work.
    I share Rob’s disdain for Todd McFarlane, it feel like it is a crime against humanity, an absolute felony, that they tainted the purity of Infinity Inc. that had gorgeous Ordway art, by allowing McFarlane to do a few issues. I don’t know how you go from one of the nicest and biggest legends in comics ever, Jerry Ordway, to perhaps the biggest DBag ever to work in comics. It would be like having Ordway draw Superman or Captain Marvel, and then hang over art duties to Liefeld. Barf. One can’t deny Todd HAD incredible talent at one point, however I find anything he touches to be off-putting due to his baggage. To put it in an analogy that Shag can relate to, it would be like Carmine Electra coming out and saying she had syphilis, after that it would be hard to consider her hot.

    I’m glad Who’s Who has won Shag over to the side of Kubert lovers. My jaw almost hit the ground when listening to one of the early episodes when Shag said he wasn’t a fan of Kubert’s art. Blasphemy! It’s good to hear that he’s been won over! I’m glad I got a chance at C2E2 in 2012 to get some stuff signed by him before he passed. A short funny story, I used Comicvine (stupid me) to track down some special issues Kubert worked on. Well Comicvine incorrectly pointed me to World’s Finest #172, which it claimed it reprinted a Kubert War story in it, and also incorrectly listed Neal Adam’s as Curt Swan’s inker for the cover. So silly me without double checking (it didn’t help that credits were scarce at this time), I took it along to C2E2 and got it signed by both Neal Adams and Joe Kubert, when neither of them actually worked on the book. The issue cover (it’s a gorgeous one) was actually inked by George Klein, and while it did reprint a War story from GI Combat that Kubert worked on, it wasn’t Kubert’s story from that issue. Regardless, of the blunder, it is a gorgeous book, signed by 2 comic legends, and will always have a special place in my collection. From now on I refer to Comicbook DB just like Shag, but obviously that has its errors as well.

    Have you guys ever considered doing a Crisis on Infinitive Earths Podcast? It’s not like you guys are already super busy or anything, but I think that’d be a great addition to the Fire & Water family of Podcasts. It is the greatest comic event of all time, and since it’s mentioned during every episode of Who’s Who for obvious reasons, it only makes sense that it gets its own podcast as well!

    That’s the end of my long nerd rant, but I can assure you, despite my lengthy rant, I do not live in my parent’s basement like the guy in the letters column of Who’s Who vol. IX. It’s really nice to look back at these to a much better time of the DCU, after each podcast brings back so many fond memories, and it’s a nice escape to a much more enjoyable and all around better era of the DCU compared to the sad New 52 DCU with its many glaring plot holes and all around editorial disdain for the DCU World builders of the past like Jurgens, Ordway, and Perez. I want to compliment you on your one-two punch of podcasts, between Who’s Who and Fire & Water; it’s a nice comparison of then and now. Thanks for such a great show again guys, keep up the great work. Fan the Flame and Ride the Wave!

    -Kyle Benning

    PS Composite Superman rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Okay not really, he’s a stupid concoction, but you have to admit that he is at least visually appealing.

  18. Martin Gray says:

    Another great podcast, chaps. One little point, Gunner & Sarge weren’t paired up for Who’s Who, to save space – they were partners in a strip, with Pooch. Here’s loads of info from the too Silver Age blog.

    http://sacomics.blogspot.co.uk/2006/07/gunner-sarge.html

    And Anthony, spot on, the Losers died two different ways during Crisis, it was a real headscratcher.

  19. Doug says:

    Late to the party. Was just listening to a small portion of the podcast. As Siskoid and Count Drunkula attest, it was originally Ninth metal for the first appearance of Hawkman (formerly known as Earth-2 Hawkman or Golden Age Hawkman and maybe even the original Hawk-guy).

  20. Ninth Metal is correct for the early Golden Age stories. The idea is that it was beyond the “7 metals of antiquity,” which were gold, copper, silver, lead, tin, iron, and mercury. I think the eighth metal might be antimony. But in Flash Comics #1 they specifically say “Ninth Metal,” though it would later become “Nth Metal.”

    Golden Age Shiera had brownish-red hair, at least she does in my Golden Age Hawkman Archives. Sheldon Moldoff always made her look gooooooorgeous.

    Murphy Anderson drawing Golden Age Hawkman? Well played, Who’s Who. Well played! A bit ironic but still much appreciated.

    Joe Kubert drawing Silver Age Hawkman? Well played, Who’s Who. Well played! Talk about a perfect match for a character and an artist. By the way, Police Commissioner Emmett was a long running supporting character for Hawkman and was around as late as the 80s solo book.

    Shayera/Shiera as Katar/Carter’s secretary made for some great comedy bits with Mavis Trent, before Mavis got disintegrated by Thanagarian invaders. I always loved her tendency to use Thanagarian technology while Katar used classical weapons.

    I think Rob wants Hawkwoman and Mera to team up because they both have red hair. By the way, in the New 52, Hawkgirl (Kendra Saunders) is on Earth 2, while Shayera Thol is a Thanagarian princess on the main Earth.

    When Sterling Gates wrote Hawk & Dove, he made an interesting twist in the Dove (Dawn Granger) character — that as the Avatar of Peace, Dove was driven to eliminate conflict, even if that meant in lethal manner. An intriguing concept, so of course it was abandoned shortly afterwards.

    Sorry this is so late, and sorry that you guys didn’t care for my exit tag idea. But good show anyway!

  21. Phylemon says:

    Boring! There is nothing boring about the Forever People, except, maybe, how when they are transported to the planet Adon, even though they are in the middle of a war with Darkseid, they just give up and go exploring instead of searching for a way back into the fight. Oh! You said I was boring. Well, that’s probably true.

    Here are my boring thoughts on issue 10:

    This is the cover that I like least. Never noticed it before, but there is really none of that fun interplay we have seen in previous covers. It’s beautiful (they all were) but this is definitely lacking something.

    Did you notice that Sam Glanzman drew the Haunted Tank entry. Glanzman wrote the autobiographical USS Stevens stories about his time in World War II, including a whole new batch of them in the recent “Joe Kubert Presents” mini-series. If you didn’t read that series, you really missed out, particularly as much as y’all praise Kubert’s art.

    I also think Hawk and Dove would work well today, although they would need to be updated some. Hawk could be a Tea Party cypher and Dove could be the voice of the “Occupy” movement. It would take a good writer to present them both even handedly, but it could be fun.

    I did not realize until this very moment the pun about Tao Jones. That is awesome and makes me like the character ten times more than I did already (although ten times zero is still zero, so I guess it doesn’t change all that much after all).

    I’m definitely going to have to pick up some Hercules Unbound! Sounds like a great list of creators and a true undiscovered gem.

    I agree with Anthony Durso / The Toyroom. Highfather’s real name is pronounced Isaiah, like the Biblical character, at least in my opinion.

    All three Perez entries are stunningly beautiful, as is the Ordway Hippolyta.

    Sad you didn’t make more mention of the most recent Human Target TV show. It was a wonderful show, albeit too short lived.

    Is anyone else concerned that, at least based on the floating heads, Juggler is not the one in Hunter’s Hellcats who is juggling the grenades. It kind of looks like Snake Oil, which would be bad, since Snake Oil would probably make the grenades too slippery to properly juggle (although is there really a “proper” way to juggle grenades?)

    I’m clearly in the minority here, but I always think of Huntress as Helena Wayne, and the switch back to this origin is the one and only thing that DC has done right in the New 52.

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