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Geek Talk! FIRE & WATER PODCAST Episode 41

Firestorm and Aquaman: The Fire and Water PodcastThe 41st episode of THE FIRE AND WATER PODCAST is now available for your listening pleasure! THE FIRE AND WATER PODCAST is the official podcast of FIRESTORM FAN and THE AQUAMAN SHRINE.

Aquaman? Firestorm? Bah…let’s talk about something else today! This episode Shag and Rob discuss a range of comic-related topics, such as underrated comic runs, our top five favorite superheroes, some favorite comics where we were late to the party, how we would build a Firestorm-centric crossover, and more!

Please support the Kickstarter project, “Off the Record DVD interview with Gerry Conway”! This 3 and 1/2 hour video interview covers Gerry’s entire career, how he got into comics, plus the inner workings and what happens behind the scenes of DC comics and Marvel comics! This is a great interview and many Firestorm and Aquaman fans would really enjoy hearing Gerry’s stories. Please support this Kickstarter! Time runs out to show your support on February 4th! Act now!

Don’t forget, all through January 2013 you can save 10% on Aquaman and Firestorm t-shirts from! Be sure to use the promo code ‘FireWater10‘ to save 10% on these shirts below! Our thanks to for providing this generous discount!

You can find the 41st episode of THE FIRE AND WATER PODCAST on iTunes. While you’re there, please drop us a review on the iTunes page. Every comment helps! Alternatively, you may download the podcast by right-clicking here, choosing “Save Target/Link As”, and selecting a location on your computer to save the file (38 MB).

As always, thanks to my co-host Rob Kelly, Sea King of THE AQUAMAN SHRINE, for doing all the post-production on these episodes! Intro theme, “That Time is Now,” by Michael Kohler. Special thanks to Daniel Adams and Ashton Burge with their band The Bad Mamma Jammas for our fantastic original closing theme!

Have a question or comment? Send us an e-mail at

Check out below a couple of the underrated comics I mention on this episode. To see more awesome covers of comics discussed on this episode, be sure to visit our Tumblr site at

Doctor Fate by J.M. DeMatteis and Shawn McManus

Doctor Fate #2 by J.M. DeMatteis and Shawn McManus

Daredevil by Karl Kesel and Cary Nord

Daredevil #355 by Karl Kesel and Cary Nord

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  1. Siskoid says:

    First 10 minutes…
    Len Wein has material in the 2013 Doctor Who Annual, so that might explain that. Maybe Wolfman is his +1.

  2. Siskoid says:

    24 minutes in…
    YES, the Karl Kesel run on Daredevil was what brought me back to the Marvel Universe for the first time in 6 years. I thought it might be the end of 90s Marvel…

  3. Siskoid says:

    39 minutes in… two things.

    1. Those oversized hardbacks are pretty much the standard in European bandes dessinées, and we do call them albums (in French at least). I guess it’s an industry standard.

    2. I can’t follow any of your recommendations, Shag, because I’ve already read them all! (It’s what you keep saying about our respective wheelhouses.) So I’ll be hunting for Rob’s instead.

  4. Siskoid says:

    53 minutes in… I also liked the Daredevil movie. I own both the theatrical and Director’s Cut DVDs and like both for different reasons. It gets a lot of crap for basically not being Spider-Man, I find.

  5. Siskoid says:

    1:18… Firestorm crossover idea?

    Firestorm teams up with various heroes and integrates them into his matrix. Superstorm, Batstorm, Wonderstorm, Greenstorm, Dialstorm, Frankenstorm… WHATEVER!

    First, set up that he has that power (already well on the way after the Megala incident)…

  6. Frank says:

    1. As I’ve said in the past, I think it’s a bad idea to ever have guests on the Who’s Who podcast because the whole show is about how two established fanboys feel about the DC Universe, character by character. Any additional speakers ruins that dynamic. You play well off one another, and while it’s interesting when one or the other of you is replaced on a given F&W Episode, I wouldn’t appreciate that being the norm. The chemistry may not be as crackerjack as more famous duos, but would anyone really want Simon & Simon without both Gerald McRaney and Jameson Parker? I really don’t appreciate that negative review, because thanks to my need to defend you as a couple, the image of Rob and Shag’s love child will plague my nightmares forevermore.

    2. You know what else was a huge international television success? Baywatch. My father got me watching new generation Dr. Who a few years ago, and it’s fun if repetitive. That doesn’t mean he and my first girlfriend don’t deserve scorn and derision for wasting years watching the boring, cheesy original series on PBS thirty years ago. On the other hand, mmmmm Martha Jones. That joint will be lousy with Amy Ponds, but a proper and in this case legitimate Martha Jones sighting is a rare treat that also sends my thoughts back to Baywatch beach. Say, Valentine’s Day could work out okay with an inventive tweak and probable bulking up/smoothing out of a sonic screwdriver.

    3. I really don’t like to give random creeps my mailing address address and credit card information for a single potentially catastrophic purchase *rob* but I’d really like to buy a copy of that Gerry Conway DVD. I’d be even more enthusiastic if he wore puffy sleeves.

    4. I’ve read a couple of Kupperberg Vigilante issues, and they read like Kupperberg, but maybe I should consider believing Rob maybe possibly. I believe Alan Davis was lured away to Marvel with the promise of X-book riches, while I think Mike Barr had some dispute with editorial that led his career to rapidly contract.

    5. Kevin Smith’s Daredevil didn’t come along until years later, when Joe Kelly and Gene Colan were doing a nostalgic placeholder run. I don’t remember who replaced Kesel, but he didn’t exactly goose sales, so it was no surprise. I agree that Waid is on the exact same road as Kesel, but I’ve found I don’t particularly enjoy either, because DD was just a poor man’s Spidey before Frank Miller. Then again, I’m the guy who’ll champion Denny O’Neil’s last year or so as an underappreciated gem. I’m the guy who actually liked Mikah Synn. Waid has benefited from great art, where Cary Nord clearly would have been better suited to grim stories, though I liked his Eel redesign.

    6. Didn’t Rob pimp Tomahawk in a minor blog crossover we did years ago? Also, Rob made a sex joke. Rob. Why didn’t Shag groan and threaten to edit that out?

    7. When I had my shop, and did quasi trade paperback bundles of books often unavailable under one cover. I sold my run of Green Lantern: Mosaic that way, and have regretted it ever since.

    8. Dih-Matisse?

    9. The JSA came back in an Armageddon mini-series, then Strazewski did a lengthy (8 issues?) mini-series with Tom Lyle, and then the Parobek ongoing came out. My understanding is that it was not cancelled due to low sales, but because DC felt that being the “old man” company hurt their competitiveness against Marvel and Image. To counter this, they euthanized the JSA and offered the young, hip “Zero Month” sampling of a streamlined DCU.

    10. Wasn’t Sommerset Holmes also part of that blog crossover? I only read one issue, and by read I mean I bought a copy whose cover featured ample sideboob in hopes of spanking to it. It disappointed in that respect, and I went back to a well worn copy of Heavy Metal with an Horacio Altuna story instead. The Luis Royo cover didn’t hurt. Heavy Metal was only truly great as gateway porn available on the newsstand to underage boys.

  7. Siskoid says:

    Re: 2 & 5
    Them’s fightin’ words!

  8. Frank says:

    11. I was fond of Batman into my early twenties, but got tired of his jerkiness and excessive praise. Aquaman was okay as a kid, but I didn’t really like him until “The Legend of…” special. Green Arrow I thought was cool as a kid, but I grew to hate him more and more over the years. I loathed Plastic Man because of the cartoon until the Art Spiegelman book turned me on to the awesome Jack Cole material, whereas all other Pliable Paladin comics are like comparing Grant Morrison JLA to Chuck Austen. I definitely like Hawkwoman more than Hawkman.

    12. Firestorm is okay at best in my book. Blue Devil was a childhood favorite and one of the first titles I collected. I think Dr. Fate is nifty, but I only halfway “get” the character to this day, and haven’t read any definitive runs. There is virtually no power in all of comicdom that I have less interest in than super-speed, but the Flash has tended to be better written than his contemporaries, so I don’t judge his fans as harshly as I could. Tim Drake was a good Robin that I think DC is very wrong for mistreating, but the correct answer will always be Dick Grayson. I disliked Kyle Rayner until he played the nubie so well in JLA, and he’s way better than Hal Boredan, but he still probably wouldn’t even make my top five Green Lanterns.

    13. The Daredevil movie wasn’t completely terrible, but the director/screenwriter tried to squeeze too much into one movie, so that it felt more like Cliff’s Notes than an actual film. Matt Damon should have been Murdock, and anyone else but Jennifer Gardner could have been Elektra.

    14. It would be extremely painful and difficult to cull my favorite heroes list down to a top five, and it would be extremely painful and difficult for anyone to read if I don’t. All-time also doesn’t work, because there was a year where the Punisher was my favorite, and I generally wouldn’t cross the street to spit on him today. I suppose my best criteria is characters whose collected editions/comics/merchandise I still buy today, which means Captain America, Doctor Strange, Marshal Law, Martian Manhunter, and Wonder Woman with honorable mentions to Adam Warlock, Ambush Bug, Aquaman, Black Panther, Blue Devil, Daredevil, Grimjack, the Huntress, Kitty Pryde, Luke Cage, Nightwing, and Steel.

    15. “Titans Hunt” brought me into the DC Universe after I became disillusioned with Marvel. I’ll defend the hell out of that run, especially to anyone who thinks the years of bland material after Perez left were better. I also enjoyed the Bob Harris Avengers for half a year or so, until it became clear that the Gatherers stuff was going to drag on indefinitely. I adore Dreadstar, but the whole company, not just Vanth. I cut my teeth on Starlin Captain Marvel, but the Warlock stuff is vastly superior.

    16. My late to the party entries? I trade-waited the Frank Miller trinity The Dark Knight Returns, Batman: Year One, & Daredevil: Born Again. More devastatingly though, I didn’t read Watchmen until 1994, and remain unimpressed. Marshal Law was my Watchmen. I’m not big on Alan Moore in general, which means I’ve yet to read most of his Swamp Thing, any of Marvelman of From Hell, nor most of his Avatar work.

  9. rob! says:

    Also, Rob made a sex joke.

    I did?

  10. Keith Samra says:

    I hav’nt finished the full episode yet, but I would like to mention afew of my favourite runs on a comic…

    Young Justice – by Peter David and Todd Nauck!
    a very funny and light hearted Super hero book with the odd heavy moment here and there!

    G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero – by Larry Hama and Various artists.
    I discovered this through Michael Baileys Views From The Longbox. Awesome series, Larry Hama pretty much created a super hero book without super heroes… But with plenty of Ninja’s!

    Power of Shazam! – By Jerry Ordway.
    It’s Big Jerry… Nuff said! But if you need more convincing, its a good Super hero family book. Havnt read it in years, worth checking out!

    Alex Ross Oversized Tabloid Editions – Alex Ross and Paul Dini
    Superman: Peace on Earth, Batman:War on Crime, Wonder Woman: Spirit of Truth and Captain Marvel/Shazam: Power of Hope.
    Four books that really humanise the DC big guns. Follow them up with JLA: Secret Origins and JLA Liberty and Justice and you have Super Powers era Justice League. Sadly Firestorm does not make an appearance… Which SUX!

  11. Frank says:

    Actually, there were two sex jokes from Rob: Giant-Sized Man-Thing and Frank Thorne’s contribution to puberty. Also, the language barrier has clearly begun to slip into a firm PG-13/late prime time basic cable area. Not complaining, just observing.

  12. Keith Samra says:

    Just finished the episode… Good job guys! I love the geek talk episodes! Very Insightfull.

    I’ll definetly look out for that Gotham Nights series. I agree with Shagg, Kesel and Nord on Daredevil was quite awesome!

    I also liked the Daredevil movie… Didnt mind Affleck much either! Directors Cut is much better than the theatrical cut.

    Robb, I love Plastic Man too! Even like that animated series! Also im curious about those death of Arthur Jnr issues, are they as good as they sound?

    Im deeply hurt that Superman is not on either of your lists as a favourite character (Thank goodness for Michael Bailey and his love for the Man of Steel).

    Shagg I thought you atleast you would have atleast given Superman a honorable mention, considering Superman IV is the only live action version that features Firestorm to date!
    (Sorry Shagg, couldnt resist).

    great episode again guys! keep it up!

  13. Sean Koury says:

    Don’t be dissing original Doctor Who! It’s great!

  14. roger priebe says:

    as great as Dr who is. and it is very great!!!

    you might want to check out another great show from England. it’s called “misfits”
    it’s part super heroes, part comedy, part drama. it’s also very adult. bad words and nudity and the like.

    season 4 just wrapped up in England. it is so worth checking out.

    other great tv from England:

    yep, i loves me some Steven Moffat (who is the new show runner on Dr who)

  15. cリnical says:

    I’ll play along. Top 5 Superheroes:

    1) Hal Jordan (Suck it, Frank.)
    2) Aquaman
    3) Hawkman
    4) Michaelangelo
    5) He-Man

    Honorable Mentions: Batman, Ma Hunkel

    And just for fun, here are my top 5 villains:

    1) The Penguin
    2) The Riddler
    3) Skeletor
    4) Hordak
    5) The Shredder

    Honorable Mention: Starscream, Dex Starr

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