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Firestorm on The Flash, The Force Awakens & Listener Feedback – FIRE & WATER #109

Firestorm and Aquaman: The Fire and Water PodcastThe 109th episode of THE FIRE AND WATER PODCAST is now available for your listening pleasure! THE FIRE AND WATER PODCAST is the official podcast of FIRESTORM FAN and THE AQUAMAN SHRINE.

This week Shag and Rob talk about Firestorm’s live action debut on The Flash, the Star Wars: The Force Awakens trailer, and wrap up with your Listener Feedback!

You can find the 109th episode of THE FIRE AND WATER PODCAST on iTunes. While you’re there, please drop us a review on the iTunes page. Every comment helps! Alternatively, you may download the podcast by right-clicking here, choosing “Save Target/Link As”, and selecting a location on your computer to save the file (117 MB).

As always, thanks to my co-host Rob Kelly, Sea King of THE AQUAMAN SHRINE, for doing all the post-production on these episodes! This episode brought to you in part by!

Have a question or comment? Looking for more great content?

Trying something a little different. Check these animated GIFs of Firestorm on The Flash!

Robbie Amell as Ronnie Raymond & Firestorm on The Flash

Robbie Amell as Ronnie Raymond & Firestorm on The Flash

Robbie Amell as Firestorm Ronnie Raymond on The Flash

Thanks for listening! Support Firestorm and Aquaman! Fan the Flame and Ride the Wave!

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  1. Michael Chiaroscuro says:

    Loved hearing all of the listener feedback, guys! Part of the joy of the show is hearing the diverse array of opinions from the listeners and then Shag’s and Rob’s responses to those opinions. Shaq really quantified something I’ve always thought but never really put into words when he said that picking and choosing your own Star Wars cannon is really akin to picking and choosing your own comics canon. I’ve been doing both for most of my life but never really noticed the similarities in approaches I (and most comics and Star Wars fans) bring to both. Good stuff.

    I have a quick question. When you mentioned another possible Bob Haney themed episode, it reminded me – whatever happened to the backups feature? And did you ever select a winner for the “name the backup feature” contest? I will freely admit I probably missed it if you did, but I was just curious to know if you did indeed, and if not, when you think you might?

  2. In my defense, my parents DID take me to the Superman and Star Trek films. Had I asked to see the later Star Wars films, I have no doubt they’d have taken me. No need to call Child Services.:-)

    I’m with you guys 100% on the Force Awakens TEASER trailer. People having brain annuerisms over this thing really need to chill-ax a bit. I got the goosebumps from seeing the Falcon as well.

    Now, as for The Flash…are we SURE Wells is the Reverse-Flash? It certainly wasn’t Tom Cavanaugh in the suit. Looked and sounded more like the actor who plays Eddie Thawne. My theory is at some point in the future, Wells will either coerce or control Eddie in the suit. This would make the TV series Zoom more like a combo of the Eobard Thawne and Hunter Zolomon versions. Just one of many theories I have.

    I’d love to see John Wesley Shipp play an alternate reality Flash on this series. How cool would that be? Hey, maybe that red blur at Nora Allen’s murder scene isn’t Barry in the past, but Henry…or an alternate Henry with Flash powers? The mind boggles. My son is now obsessed with figuring all of this out, and he’s kind of driving us nuts with it, honestly.

    The jury is still out on Firestorm. I like what I’ve seen so far, and we know Prof. Stein is coming, so I’m looking forward to where this is going.


  3. Martin Stein Returns says:

    Now I’m really sad that I missed out on the 100th episode hooplah. I just had a lot going on in what I sometimes euphemistically refer to as “real life.”

    On the heels of Earth-2 Chris’s comment, I would’ve liked to see John Wesley Shipp play the Jay Garrick Flash from an alternate reality. He’s old enough now to play the older Jay Garrick I think.

    I have to admit that I’m not all that jazzed about Star Wars. The thing is, and don’t hate on me for this, but I like my science fiction sprinkled with a little bit of brain food. Star Wars is good escapist fun, but I expect more from science fiction. I want something to think about. Nothing in any of the six films really gives that much food for thought, other than to overstate the obvious, which is that oppressive totalitarian regimes really suck. And this is what I thought the Trek reboot missed too. The Trek universe occasionally sprinkles in concepts that are interesting food for thought. Just to pull out an arbitrary example… the Borg, say. Is collectivism inherently bad? Is the Borg inherently bad? Are the Borg inhabitants unhappy? Are they oppressed? Or is it simply a different way of being, of living life other than as we know it? This is one of many examples I could point to in order to show that Star Trek is a more nuanced franchise than Star Wars (and don’t get me wrong— I’m not the world’s most staunch Trekkie either).

    The problem with the Trek reboot is that it made the Trek verse too much like Star Wars— lots of action, little in the way of anything to really ponder. So knowing J. J. is at the helm of this too, I don’t really have that much to cheer about. I also count “Lost” as a strike against J. J. too, as he promised up and down that there would be payoffs and answers, and very little materialized in the end that was very satisfying. J. J. may be the flavor of the month (well, past few years, really) but give me a Joss Whedon any day, who has proven that he can pull off a long arc. That’s the guy I wish could be in charge of a universe filled with light sabers, droids and furry aliens of various shapes and sizes.

  4. Just finished up the latest Fire and Water where Shag went on and on about his man crush Robbie “Firestorm” Amell and you guys talked about the Star Wars teaser trailer and actually seemed to like the damn thing. (I did too, btw.) But that’s not why I am writing in today.

    I’ve been listening to podcasts for well over seven years at this point and the one thing I have sworn off is writing into a show that bashes on something I like to defend that something’s honor. I have long come to grips that there are things I like that other people don’t. The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen movie is a good example of this. I like the movie quite a bit despite its numerous faults. Other people don’t. That’s fine. There is one movie that will lead me to break this rule and that movie is Van Helsing.


    Because my wife loves that movie. LOVES that movie. We saw it in the theater, bought it on DVD and she spent hours playing the Playstation 2 game that had a really lousy ending but had fun going through it otherwise. I tend to get a little crazy protective of my wife. I don’t expect anyone to understand it. It’s not rational. I mean it seems like I am defending my wife’s honor when VAN HELSING’s name is besmirched and yet here I am writing in about it anyway.

    I am not expecting an apology because, again, I am not being rational here. I just felt the need to speak up for a movie that has a large number of faults but made my wife happy and because of that fact I will give it a wide pass. I don’t expect other people to do the same. If you hate it you hate it. I can’t.

  5. ^I feel your pain Michael. My wife loves the Twilight series. Although I don’t really rush to defend her on that. I kind of use it as a weapon when she criticizes a dubious movie that I like.

    “You can’t say anything, you like Twilight!” 😉


  6. rob! says:

    It’s either The Fire and Water Podcaast or your wife, Mike. You can’t have both.

  7. My wife hates Blade Runner. Sometimes chicks be cray-cray.

  8. Frank says:


    I’ve developed a strong interest in Patsy Walker, so I’ll inevitably read the most recent volume of She-Hulk, where Hellcat works as Jenn’s p.i. Anj keeps telling me it’s good.

    Firestorm’s taking fashion tips from Alice Cooper’s character in Prince of Darkness helps keep TV Ronnie from becoming Too Dr. Manhattan-esque, or else just use Captain Atom. I have to wonder though, with the heavy emphasis on the Nuclear Man and his supporting cast, are they using him to prop up the Flash (recognizing his ’90s failure and the usefulness of Green Arrow on Smallville) or is this a season-long backdoor pilot for a Firestorm spin-off. Feels like the latter, but then again, I’m not watching the show. I’ll have to get Illegal Machine to do so, to complete his descent into becoming the Anti-Nuclear Sub. If that happens, at least the Flash series will still have Cisco Ramone to fall back on. You know, the last Vibe series was actually pretty good, a rare spot of optimism in the New 52.

    I know you guys have been listening to our podcast lately, because you’re starting to sound like Ralphie from A Christmas Story having a breakdown over here. You’re getting bar soap in your stockings this year.

    The Force Awakens teaser earned a shrug from me. Did the former empire become Cuba in the years since Return of the Jedi? The aesthetic is so slavishly similar to the original trilogy that it seems like time froze in comparison to the sharp decline from the societal heights of the prequels. Still not feeling a twitch.

    I don’t have a problem with the lack of a Han Solo in the prequels, because it makes sense for all those Jedis to be stiff-lipped samurai Englishmen. You can write to that and make it good, but different. The problem is that George Lucas has a tin ear as a writer and is a bloodless director, so everything good about the original trilogy came from other talents pushing at the boundaries of his vision to imbue it with life. Lucas took greater control of the prequels, and those working under him allowed themselves to become THX-90210 automatons. Also, I seem to recall Lucas being influenced by Asimov’s Foundation books. I’ve read a couple of them many years ago, and they’re alright, though I often felt like I was stuck in a science lecture with pages of repetition meant to drill concepts into my skull. Asimov was a thinker and educator. Lucas is kind of literarily dumb, and he has an Aspergian sense of heart, plus he just lifted stuff like trade federations without knowing what to do with the sociopolitical ramifications of such matters. If your worldview is black and white, you can’t deal with all the grays required there, and Lucas basically didn’t seem to know what he was talking about anyway.

    Haters gonna hate. The main difference is whether the speaker has a legitimate dispute and reasonable, constructive motivation in voicing it, or if there’s an underlying skewed agenda/pathology that corrupts the view.

    Van Helsing isn’t very enjoyable, but it is the right kind of bad for the aforementioned hate-watch audience. I think Rob’s prejudiced against the movie because of the liberties it takes with the Universal Monsters. With enough Booze and a fixed gaze at Kate Beckinsale’s pants (and I’m usually not into her, but damn) it’s doable.

    I was referencing Lucasfilm’s Howard the Duck, a then-upcoming Thanksgiving commentary episode.

    I could get behind a Cherry Poptart episode.

    When I look at current issues of Justice League, and I try not to, I see “The Obsidian Age.” Even before the seminal execrable storyline came out, there were Obsidian Age teams just waiting to be so named. It’s a bunch of off-brand placeholders who don’t reflect the JLA concept but we’re stuck with because a writer had a particularly smelly brainfart or due to editorial mismanagement. Has anything come out of Trinity War/Forever Evil that won’t be summed up with “yeah, that happened” in ten years, including an entire volume of Justice League of America?

    I was disappointed that you guys didn’t reference my other dimensional issue of JLofA #200 featuring only creators likely to be available to DC in 1981 who were not featured in our world’s version, then happily surprised when you did, then disappointed again when no one else chose to dimension hop and find their own copies. Oh well.

  9. @Frank – Bailey devoted an entire episode of “Views from the Longbox” to Trinity War and Forever Evil, and his passion and enthusiasm was so strong that I almost went back and read FE. Instead, I took another look at the previews and said, “Nope!”

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