Hi, Rob and Shagg
Great Who’s Who Volume XXV podcast.


I have to write and tell you how much I appreciate not only your show, but for the great positive review for the Greg Sanders Vigilante page. Vigilante has been my favorite comics character since I was about 8 years old, and first learned of him during that immortal JLA-JSA team-up.

I have a few comments that may enlighten you as to what’s going on with the Earth 1-Earth 2 Vigilante divergence, according to Mike from Mike’s Amazing World of DC Comics who­–thankfully for us–thinks about these things way more than may be healthy!

Now of course Earth 2 Vig is in fact the Seven Soldiers character from JLA #100-102, and the original character that appeared in Action Comics from 1941-1954, and in Leading Comics with the Soldiers during that era. He is only really seen again at the Crimson Avenger’s funeral in Infinity Inc #11, in 1984; retroactively, in All-Star Squadron; and in Crisis on Infinite Earths #12.

He also appeared with the Soldiers in “Land of Magic” a story that ran in Adventure Comics # 438-443 (with Aquaman headlining, Rob!) that was created from an unproduced script. Presumably that tale occurs in the late 1940s.


You are correct that Roy Thomas did not link Greg Sanders with Sheira Sanders or Speed Sanders, but in fairness, he didn’t use Vig all that much, and never utilized Speed Sanders at all. I got the sense Roy didn’t like the character-he was kind of a downer on western comics because he’d been ripped off as a kid when his All-Star Comics subscription was replaced with All-Star Western.

Now the Vigilante that appeared in JLA #78-79 (the satellite story) is in fact considered to be the Earth-1 Vigilante.

Steve Engelhart also used him in flashback in JLA #144, in retelling the League’s origin of 1958, along with many other DC stars like Robotman and Plastic Man, who also inexplicably don’t belong in that period. (But it works if you consider this as Earth-1 Vig’s first chronological appearance).

This Vigilante had several solo appearances throughout the 1970s.

– A back-up feature in Adventure Comics # 417, 422, 426 and 427 in 1972-1973.

– As a co-star of Superman in World’s Finest #214, in 1972, during the brief period when WF was a multiple team-up-like title with Supes as the anchor.

– the Dollar Comics era in World’s Finest #245-248, that was so superbly penciled by the great Gray Morrow. (I will speak on Gray later, so as to address another of your points on the art.)

Why the Who’s Who page makes no reference to various Vigilantes is due to the chronology of publication. By this time we are well into the post-Crisis era, and Vig, like many Golden and-Silver age characters is considered as being rolled into a single character for convenience. Which does make the history more linear, but of course, creates many more paradoxes, like Rob’s comment about #JLA 78-79 indicates. But hey, isn’t sorting all of this out in your brain half the fun of continuity in the first place?

Greg Sanders appeared later in Post-Crisis continuity in El Diablo, Stars & Stripes, JSA, and presumably died in the Grant Morrison Seven Soldiers epic, though he supernaturally appeared in the Bulleteer episodes. The last time we get to see him is in of all things, a Jimmy Olsen one-shot special around 2008.

We got an excellent period-era Vigilante of course, as you mentioned, fighting Bugsy Siegel in City Lights, Prairie Justice. For the most part other appearances such as JLA: Year One and Kingdom Come, he’s pretty much used as background.

In New 52 Suicide Squad he was shown posed inexplicably with Jonah Hex as the bounty hunters that filed the cells of Belle Reve in history. A shame he is so under utilized. Such a great character.

Despite how I’ve structured and detailed all of this explanation, I just don’t get all militant about it. Multiple earths adds nothing to a ground-level character like the Vigilante to keep worrying about having him span too many time and dimension anomalies. I just want a cowboy who shoots first and rams his motorbike into monsters.

Now, onto Gray Morrow’s art. As a western historian, I appreciate that Gray was one of the few artists who could do western clothing and accoutrements right, and naturally made the Vigilante look like he could step out of a panel onto a dusty road in Wyoming. So many artists can’t draw a stetson or a six-gun or Greg’s cavalry shirt to save their lives.

In Worlds Finest #247, Morrow drew an arsenal for Greg like we had never seen before, or since. Hidden in his guitar case, we see a boot dagger, a wrist derringer, a sawed-off shot gun, extra revolvers and a Dirty Harry style Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum– revealing an edgier side of the character that was ready for trouble.

He also put great detail into the motor-cycle, a Harley Davidson Electra Glide, that Greg rigged with explosives into the gas tank, and hit a switch and ram the bike into things whenever he was overwhelmed. We saw him do that in the Justice League Unlimited episode against the Shaggy Man.

Sorry, back to Gray. You mentioned that Greg’s wrist seemed abnormal in the Who’s Who entry. You’re right. As Shagg indicated, the revolvers in Vig’s holsters are reversed, with the butts to the front– quite opposite to what you see in many westerns or the average Kid Colt.

This is a military style that allowed the shooter a variety of shooting positions. He could cross-draw – with a left-hand pulling out of the right holster and vice-versa, or he could draw left-on-left, as Gray shows in the picture. To do that, he would have to somewhat reverse his hand as he draws, in order for the weapon to come out in the right position (and pointing the right direction!). His thumb is in that position because he is getting ready to cock the trigger as his gun is removed. This drawing is so great because that position illustrates how much research and detail that Gray Morrow was prepared to put into his work.

Anyway, thank you so much for a great episode, and so many great episodes in general. I follow along with the reviews from my originals, and it just reminds me of why I once got so much entertainment from comics.

Regards, Pardners!
Gord Tolton

P) Did a crazy person with no taste trace Warp in my copy of Who’s Who, or do other people have a printing error where he’s practically embossed through the page to the War Wheel entry? I read some of the Evanier/Spiegel Blackhawk material from the early ’80s, including a War Wheel appearance featuring a femme fatale (Domino?) that was cool. There are sone excellent covers from the 1950s I’d recommend checking out as well. I dislike the surprint encroaching on the subject figure.

Q) Unless the mission of the Wayne Foundation revolves around principles of right to death, that building is the worst comic book nonsense. No wait, the Weasel is also that. Isn’t it bad enough that Firestorm has one underpowered feral Spider-Man reject were-villain? I guess the Weather Wizard is a few steps up in originality from dudes with fire powers, but those stairs are toward the bottom of CN Tower. The Whip has a garish costume and unimaginative name, but I like Gustovich’s gentler take on the Neal Adams school of art. I need to read that stack of Justice Machine I bought cheap a few years ago.

R) Fun to see one noted Legion inker embellished by another, and I always thought White Witch was a neat looking character, despite limited exposure. Mike DeCarlo draws the sexiest armpits, and I don’t often consider armpits in that sort of evaluation. I’m not 100% sure that’s how boobs work, but I dig the image overall.

S) Wildcat I has a swell origin and found a very cozy utilitarian role in the DC Universe, but my feeling is that his time had passed post-Crisis as a player in modern stories. It would have been okay if he were allowed to fully age and become a surly old fart, but he was played as middle aged and far too active for a character wearing that costume riding around on motorcycles and stuff. I liked him until he started getting on my nerves as the JSA’s Wolverine by way of Ben Grimm, basically. Artist Irwin Hasen is probably best knownso for co-creating the Dondi comic strip. Wildcat II had a moronic X-angst origin and was the nth cat-lady on a super-team. I didn’t mind the character and applaud the pro-diversity motivation behind her creation, but she was so redundant that I applauded her role in the great Diablo Island massacre in Eclipso #13 (which off the top of my head also claimed Doctor Midnight, Peacemaker, and Commander Steel, as well as some other guys whose deaths were retconned.)

T) On a team of polite young whitebread, Wildfire was the coarse Everyman that shook things up. He served the team in his time, but never found him exceptional. I like Gene Colan’s art on the Wing entry, and he’s a rare Asian costumed adventurer at DC, but he’s also the footnote of a footnote.

U) My first and longest exposure to Klarion the Witchboy was the Grant/Semeiks volume of the Demon. I never read the Kirby volume, so that’s my base conception of the character, as a magical nuisance with a mean streak who turns up in sorcery stories. I do think the New 52 missed the boat on exploring Klarion as trans (is he a witch, or a boy, or is he and his lapcat beyond your narrow definitions?) Great looking entry.

Looking forward to the History of the DC Universe episode, as I have the Graphitti Designs hardcover will the supplemental material.

Happy to inspire that DC Sampler punch drunk giggle fit! Makes me laugh just hearing the strains of Rob’s nervous beakdown.

So, on to this issue:

I agree with Rob’s comments about the cover. The random sizing of the characters is off-putting. I also think Warlord would have been the superior choice for the number one guy (at the very least, a number two position on the front cover was warranted).

The omission of Sugar and Spike is egregious, and the argument that they didn’t meet the criteria doesn’t hold water since they were in Crisis.

The first three entries feature beautiful art. I’m always a sucker for entries like The Untouchables that have the dual color surprint.

“Because, comics” is my new favorite catchphrase.

Others have mentioned it, but five foot for Validus seems a little short.

Speaking of Validus, I will agree that this art is not a knockout, but I really loved the Vartox entry. It’s hard to describe, but the Curt Swan art makes me want to track down his stories for some classic silly fun.

Gray Morrow! About a month ago, I purchased some digital versions of old Creepy comics. I was so struck by the art of Gray Morrow, a penciller who I had not previously heard of, that I went on a Google binge for hours. It’s good to see his work on a DC character.

I’ve never been able to get into Vigilante’s II’s series despite my best efforts. I want to like him, especially because of the Titans connection and the cool looking costume, but comic book anti-heroes always give me the Bores.

Y’all were a little rough on The Viking Commando. He seems like he would be fun to fight Nazi’s with.

Finally, on page 16, we get to our Kapow moment! Forever Person Vykin (the unfortunately named), who is holding the team’s mother box. Shag, I will look forward to you directing that apology towards me when you finally break down, read the Forever People, and recognize its awesomeness. Really, you just need to read the whole Fourth World Saga (4 omnibuses that I’m sure can be found on In-Stock Trades).

Out of spite, I really want to like The Wanderers, but there is not a whole lot there to care about. Celebrand’s hands are like twice the size of his head. Just bizarre, and not in a good way.

Warlord needs a Big Mac, but other than that, a beautiful entry.

George Perez elevates an otherwise pedestrian Warp entry. I love all things Teen Titans, but Brotherhood of Evil is the least interesting of their opponents.

Rob, I find your comments about Valda’s logo funny when a few pages later you get The War Wheel. The whole entry, including the logo, is top notch. I love this concept!

How did we get through the White Witch entry with no mention of the line, “The White Witch has taken personal combat training courses as a Legionaire with generally unsatisfactory results.” Shag usually is all over those sorts of things. I love the idea of her failing those classes. Did she have to cram for the final the night before? Did she have to retake the course in summer school? What does the Legion constitution say about washing out of your combat class.

The Wildcat I conversation is one of the reasons I love this podcast. I have looked at that entry a dozen times, thought, “Oh my gosh, how did that art pass muster,” and moved on. Knowing the connection between Hasen and the character makes this entry make so much more sense. Thanks, guys.

Until next time . . .

K) I alternate between referring to Vixen with and without the “The,” but it does help distinguish her from all the other Vixens. I don’t recall her costume being any different between her ’70s house ad and first published story appearances several years later. She has one of those subjective first appearances like Marvel used to tout as “In Shadow/Cameo.” Ads usually don’t count officially, but then again, Marvel UK was so enamoured with their newly created Transformers villain Death’s Head that they rushed out a one page comic strip that ran in several of their titles which secured them the copyright/trademark over Hasbro. Depends on who benefits most from the accounting. Anyway, I prefer to think of Canceled Comics Cavalcade as her first appearance, since it has greater narrative and historical value, plus I’d like to see it come our someday in better than Xerox quality reproduction and in color. Her Action Comics story was pretty lame, plus it was drawn by Curt Swan, sooooo…

That said, the story from The Vixen #1 diverges from her reintroduction in the Detroit League, including her parentage and the name/abilities of her blood adversary. Before the New 52, I wanted to see DC fill in the gap between the heroic ages of World War II and the modern era with C/D-listers that worked best in specific times past (like the original Hawk & Dove needing to be in the Vietnam period.) In my head canon, Mari Jiwe ran around in the blue and gold costume in the past, and her relative Mari Macabe took up the mantle in the present.

If you couldn’t tell, I like The Vixen quite a bit, and am excited about her upcoming cartoon. However, I recently read the origin story of Marvel’s The Cat, and it’s hard not to see parallels between the two. However, the Cat developed into Tigra, so Vixen better owns her origin without ridiculous complications, and basically just matters more as probably DC’s best heroine of color.

Vykin the Black is provably not DC’s best hero of color.

L) My chief reference point for The Wanderers is an article in the free DC circular that replaced DC Sampler in 1987 that spotlighted their series and Millennium. So, I found them less interesting than Millennium, since I bought that, but never the Wanderers, which was a fixture of quarters bins in my experience. Their tagline was something like they had to solve the greatest mystery– their own murders. But since they were still doofuses even after being revitalized and redesigned, I just figured they deserved to die and the real crime against the common good was their resurrection. Didn’t help that they were drawn by one of my personal all-time least favorite artists, Dave “The Vacuum” Hoover. It’s funny that Shag said he couldn’t find their comics anywhere, as a whole run can be had for about $14 at Lone Star Comics, but only 3 of 7 issues were available of the book I was looking into at the time, Critical Mass.

M) I seem to recall that the Warlock of Ys was at the center of a popular theory of the ’90s that involved his switching places or corrupting Hal Jordan, leading to Emerald Twilight. Cool Gil Kane art on nothing character.

N) My understanding is that The Warlord was to DC as Conan and Star Wars were to Marvel in the ’70s: a sales lifesaver in troubled times. They were of course replaced by the parallel ascendency of X & NTT. I liked the book during a time of high melodrama in the early ’80s related to riffs on the ol’ presumed dead son and Man in the Iron Mask, but lost interest when my source for twenty-five cent copies dried up.

The Warlords of Okaara were. That’s my definitive statement on the concept.

O) Warp continues the streak of poorly designed George Perez characters while also breaking it by being so lame it doesn’t even look good when drawn by George Perez. This goober was no Vanisher, which means he wouldn’t even be a worthy foe for a New Mutants spin-off.